Wood working:Dry fitting?

[N80]

I wouldn't say I am new to woodworking. I've made several nice looking but not fine built-in shelves for my house that turned out very well. All painted, not stained/finished. These were all using bought lumber. No serious joinery.

I am currently making a set of shelves from white oak off of a sawmill. These shelves are going to be rustic but not crude. Sort of Stickley/Mission style. Building from raw lumber is a whole other level of difficulty. I have a planer but no jointer. It is going painfully slow but making progress with no major goof-ups so far.

I am using dowel joinery and have a pretty nice doweling jig from Jessem (which works extremely well by the way.)

Anyway, in all the videos I watch when the joinery is done everyone does a dry fit before glue up which I did with two of the side panels which are fairly complex. They went together easily and looked better than I had any right to expect. Well, today I went to take them apart for glue up and it was very difficult and I broke a few dowels and dinged a couple of pieces. The dings aren't a big deal as these are rustic with scattered knots and wormholes in the wood. The dowels I drilled out and replaced. Everything glued up fine. But I sure don't want to go through that every time.

So long story long...how important is dry fitting? Should it be common practice? I guess it is a bit of a Catch-22? Any advice appreciated.

 

[CliffordK]

It is a big pain for something not to fit when you have it all glued up, or perhaps half of it stuck together and glued or nailed and realize that it all must come apart.

It depends a bit on how much you trust your work. I do like tight fits... which may mean not pounding it together, then pounding it back apart.

Perhaps part of your problem was using dowels that were tight, but not strong enough for your manipulating.

If you are using dowel centering pins, or using a biscuit jointer, perhaps you could trust you put them in the right place, and do your mockup without the dowels and biscuits.

 

[EddieWalker]

I haven't used dowels in decades, so I might not be of any help. I switched to biscuits back in the 90's.

I fit everything together before applying glue.

 

[1 Old Man]

I haven't used dowels in decades, so I might not be of any help. I switched to biscuits back in the 90's.

I fit everything together before applying glue.

Same here. Btw, use a mallet or block of wood and a hammer to take apart your dry fit. Short raps and no wood scaring/dents. Good luck on your project.

 

[newbury]

So long story long...how important is dry fitting? Should it be common practice? I guess it is a bit of a Catch-22? Any advice appreciated.

Dry fitting is VERY important.
But it depends what humidity/temp you dry fit at.
If the dowels or furniture swell a little after a successful dry fit they could be difficult to get apart.

 

[3Ts]

I am currently making a set of shelves from white oak off of a sawmill.

Just how green (dry) are the boards you are using? They will shrink as they dry. I assume that you know that wood swells and shrinks based on it's moisture content and the humidity. Oak is more prone to movement than other wood species.

 

[amarsh64]

If your white oak is air dried there may still be some moisture in it. This usually means the wood will still move after you machine it. Also , if you are drilling holes for dowels in wood that is not totally dried then the dowel you put in may catch some of that moisture and swell just slightly if left dry fitted for a while . It does not take much to create a fit that is too tight. And btw dry fitting any project (when you can ) is the smart way to go. That's how you catch any potential problems before you get the adhesive going . Cheers.

 

[vic4news]

They went together easily and looked better than I had any right to expect. Well, today I went to take them apart for glue up and it was very difficult and I broke a few dowels and dinged a couple of pieces.

Dry fitting is important before gluing up pieces. Probably more for cabinets (you want everything square) than for shelves.

With dowels, I like the 1st half of the dowel to go in easy and the second half to need a few taps with a mallet. Never leave the dry fit together. Wood is always reacting with humidity and the fit can get too tight.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Cut extra dowels, sand them slightly smaller in diameter, dry fit with those and use the full size ones for the final glue up.

I ALWAYS dry fit my projects.

SR

 

[N80]

Thanks guys. Good thoughts all around.

The wood has been drying for about a year and surface moisture is about 12% which is probably about the best I can do around here. I did leave that dry fit sitting over night so there may have been some moisture change.

The broken dowels came after a vigorous wack with the mallet sent one of the rails down to the floor. They broke when they hit the floor. They survived being pried out.

You all have convinced me to continue to dry fit. I'll do it and then immediately disassemble. I may do the sanded dowel trick too.

As always I appreciate the help and wisdom I get on TBN.

 

[Deere Dude]

I cannot remember ever dry fitting with dowels or bisqiuts. On tight tolerances you are asking for trouble. But, I used good lumber and made sure they were the exact dimensions. I had to plane off 1/16" on many boards so they were sure to fit. Even good mills seem to be consistently off a little but.
As with anything, the more you do the less you need to double check dimentions which is good but takes time. FWIW

 

[N80]

I've got two of the four side panels glued up. Did not dry fit the second one but that was before I posted. Two more ready to go. I just now dry fitted number 3 but just enough to make sure all dowels and holes lined up. Did not hammer it home. Even then it still took a few minutes to get it apart. I'll probably continue to do it this way. These four panels are by far the hardest joinery and glue up of the project so the hardest part is nearly done and so far I don't see a major goof up. I'm sure it will come soon enough.

 

[4570Man]

I wouldn’t bother using dowels at all for a edge to edge joint. The glue is plenty strong by itself. And sand down the dowels until they fit without issues.

 

[N80]

I wouldn’t bother using dowels at all for a edge to edge joint. The glue is plenty strong by itself. And sand down the dowels until they fit without issues.

Here is what the sides of the shelves look like. These are 7 feet tall. The edges are a corner made of two 1x2 pieces glued along the edge. I think I used 5 dowels along the length of each of these.

The horizontal pieces at the top and bottom have three dowels on each joined edge. Since these are edge grain to end grain I think the dowels are helpful.

But, where they have been really helpful is getting all of this aligned for glue up.

 

[Egon]

Th

Here is what the sides of the shelves look like. These are 7 feet tall. The edges are a corner made of two 1x2 pieces glued along the edge. I think I used 5 dowels along the length of each of these.

The horizontal pieces at the top and bottom have three dowels on each joined edge. Since these are edge grain to end grain I think the dowels are helpful.

But, where they have been really helpful is getting all of this aligned for glue up.


View attachment 875646

 

[Egon]

Here is what the sides of the shelves look like. These are 7 feet tall. The edges are a corner made of two 1x2 pieces glued along the edge. I think I used 5 dowels along the length of each of these.

The horizontal pieces at the top and bottom have three dowels on each joined edge. Since these are edge grain to end grain I think the dowels are helpful.

But, where they have been really helpful is getting all of this aligned for glue up.


View attachment 875646

On the pictures shown no dowells need to be used. The Center pieces are just straight glue up placed in a slot top and bottom. The outer pieces easily lend themselves to a half lap joint which will be stronger than dowels!

Comments much to late for the present prodject!

 

[Topzide]

A benchtop router table can be used as an edge joiner when working with limited machinery. My Benchdog table is handy and doesn't eat up a lot of space as already have routers! Can make finger joints as well!

 

[CalG]

DRY FIT! and the parts should go together easily, and come apart readily. YOU HAVE TO LEAVE ROOM FOR THE GLUE!

 

[N80]

I don't have a router table or table saw. So slots, groves and even half laps really aren't an option. Not skilled enough for hand cut joinery.

I have been told that end grain to side grain joints are not ideal for glue alone. Maybe that's wrong. Live and learn.

So now I'm curious. If I did not need any dowels for this project, when do you need to use loose tenon joinery like dowels or dominoes?

 

[dadohead]

So now I'm curious. If I did not need any dowels for this project, when do you need to use loose tenon joinery like dowels or dominoes?

Your use of dowels is just fine. Also, what you were told regarding required jointery for end/side grain is spot on.

One thing that may make doweling easier for you is sizing the dowel before use. I have a 1/4" thick steel plate with 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" reamed holes I made years ago. The dowel is simply driven through the appropriate hole to size it assuring good fits.

Using air dried lumber for interior projects can be tricky. 12% is about as dry as you can get; it usually takes way longer than a year too. Are you using an accurate meter? Know that wood usually climatizes to 10% in heated homes (throughout the nation). Cross-grain jointery (in completed projects) captures the wood and trys to prevent it from moving. Kiln dried wood (6-8%) is compressed as it heads toward 10% MC. Wet wood (>12%) will try and shrink as it heads toward 10% and crack when it is prevented from doing so. Be sure of your MC if you are determined to use air dried lumber.