Wood working question

[s219]

I use pine boards for making a lot of rustic stained furniture, and it works great for that. I used pine once to make a painted built-in shelf, and it was a struggle to get a nice smooth painted finish between the grain and the knots. Over time, the wood changed a little, just enough to make it look slightly sloppy. Since then I have always used MDF with poplar at exposed edges for anything that is meant to be painted smooth.

On our new home, the trim is all a softwood -- not pine, but something else. It is nice stuff. Came pre-primed. Was and has remained very stable. It's not like any of the softwood trim I can buy at Lowes or HD.

I think if you could get old-growth, fine grained pine without knots all over the place, it would be OK. But the stuff you can get in the box stores nowadays is wide grained and full of knots.

 

[comancheflight]

Normally I don't step in on these type of forums but I'll make an exception since I own a cabinet shop. There are several things to consider. (Keep in mind I own a cabinet shop. Read: what you pay vs what I pay aren't the same.) 1) cost. 2) time. and 3.) Quality.
Cost - plywood is relatively cheap. Time - plywood is quick. Quality - plywood is pain free.
So what about hardwood. Poplar would be my wood of choice. Excellent paint grade and better than other woods. IF you can locate a cabinet shop to sell you some kiln dried straight line ripped lumber and assume you also need planed to thickness.
In a modern home the is heated and A/C all woods are plenty stable enough using proper techniques. Yes plywood is more stable but read last line. My suggestion (based on we have no idea of what dimensions or drawings) would be to use plywood for all drawer boxes, poplar face. Boxes out of plywood and you can use poplar to edge those. Shelving use poplar or plywood with, say 1 1/2" front to prevent sag on either. Also you can buy prefinished maple plywood (unstained) so boxes once assembled are done.
I highly recommend that...big time savor. I'm typing this on my phone if it seems I am rambling.
Over all if you buy the closet organizer stuff it will be quicker and cheaper - cost and quality. I have installed them for others. Would I use them? Sure, in an area that isn't abused or used much..
Here is some trivia for you - old timers were smart. They used quarter sawn oak for doors, trim, furniture. Expansion and contraction splits doors and causes gaps in miter joints. Quarter sawn expands/contracts with the thickness and not across the face so it alleviates the problem. Pretty smart..

 

[comancheflight]

Another method and is easy is pluwood and use laminate such as formica if you can find a cheap source...it is very easy to work with..

 

[quicksandfarmer]

Okay, so you guys have given me a lot of good advice. After discussing it with my wife the plan is too look real hard again at modular stuff and if that does not work I'll look real hard at MDF and plywood as has been suggested.

But being hard headed I still have to wonder about using actual boards. I get what you guys are saying and I probably know the answer to this question but: My current home has 85 year old built ins made from what appears to be painted pine and they look great and hold many pounds of books without sagging. My previous home had massive built ins in the living room. All board construction done in the 1980s. They looked and worked great. Why? Does it all come down to better quality wood? In other words, if money were not an option is all board construction still a viable option if you can buy high quality wood?

Boards warp, split, shrink and swell. Even the highest quality wood has issues. If you look at the highest end cabinetry, the only place that solid wood is used is in the doors and drawers. For panel doors people want the wood look. For drawers people want dovetail joints and the wood look. If they have flush style doors they're going to be plywood or MDF with a wood veneer. The design of panel doors has allowances for the movement of wood -- and even high quality ones will warp with time.

Plywood comes in grades. There is very little in a big box store that is satisfactory for cabinets, you have to find a place that supplies cabinetmakers if you want the good stuff. The big issue is pieces that have two exposed sides, just about everything at HD or Lowes will have at most one good side. If you're painting you have a little more latitude. MDF takes paint really well, takes glue better than any wood, and is very easy to work. It requires no sanding and cut edges require no special treatment before painting if they're cut well. It is heavy and has more of a tendency to sag than plywood.

Having said that, there is something nice about the feel of solid wood. The movement issues with solid wood are worse the bigger the piece, the way to minimize them is with lots of smaller pieces instead of bigger pieces. That's why panel doors are constructed the way they are, in fact a huge part of the craft of fine furniture is compensating for the movement of wood. A relatively simple material that allows you to do that is tongue and groove boards. The design of the tongue and groove allows the wood to expand and contract sideways without distorting, and having boards joined by tongue and groove means that if one board warps the others help hold it straight. I've made doors with a few pieces of T&G and a perpendicular cleat holding them all together. It's easy and a rustic look.

A trick with T&G doors is to cut the boards a little long, join them all together, and then cut the top and bottom square and to length. Much easier than cutting all the boards to the exact length and then trying to assemble them into a square and true door.

 

[Egon]

Make your plans and then decide on the wood for the different parts. Consider the solid wood shelving boards the box stores sell. Sweaters don't like MDF or plywood! ( just my quirky thinking ) edging or stripping takes time and may not handle abuse well.

As already mentioned poplar would be an excellent choice, maybe the best.
With a proper design adjustability is not hard to do if using the clips that fit in holes.

You built steps so there is no problem with skill levels.

In house don't be overly concerned with wood movement.

With access to a planer glueing up your own shelving isn't difficult; just takes a little more time. The advantage is you will be sizing to what is required and can make non standard pieces easily. ( as long as they fit the planner )

Doing the work yourself is much different than doing it commercially.

 

[EddieWalker]

Home Depot has a great deal on cabinet grade plywood. It's $30 a sheet and has about 8 layers, plus a clear white wood veneer on both sides that paints very nicely. I prefer MDF for most things that I'm going to paint. Home Depot also has it in half inch thickness. Lowes doesn't, which is really a lot lighter and easier to deal with.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

Doing the work yourself is much different than doing it commercially.

This.

A commercial guy wants to minimize time on the jobsite, do as much in the shop as possible. For you they're the same place. If you're building in the shop it has to be built to survive being transported.

One thing to keep in mind that is not obvious, (but to someone who does it all the time is so obvious that it doesn't even bear mentioning): your floor is not level. Your ceiling is not level. Your walls are not plumb, they're not straight, and they're not perpendicular to each other. But you want your cabinets to be absolutely level and plumb. A shelf doesn't have to be much off level for things to roll off, a cabinet doesn't have to be much off plumb for doors and drawers to move on their own. One of the purposes of toekicks, moldings and fill strips is to compensate for the imperfections in the house. You'll find it easier if you build everything slightly undersized and then use shims and trim to pad out the difference.

 

[N80]

Excellent advice guys. I'm starting to scare my wife with all this DIY talk and she is now reconsidering hiring a pro and just spending the extra money..................mission accomplished! ;-) Not really, I like learning to do this sort of thing and there would be a compound miter saw in the budget and I want one anyway!

Okay, way off topic and I'm sure it has been discussed elsewhere, but Eddie, I love your gazebo....and I'll expose my closet nerd here, it reminds me of the style of architecture in an old computer game called Riven. Did that happen to be an inspiration for the design.....if not, where did the design come from.

http://img.jeuxvideo.fr/028A016D2500-c2-photo-oYToxOntzOjE6InciO2k6NjUwO30=-myst-iii-exile.jpg

 

[GLyford]

How about using the pieces parts of a commercial closet system, but "kit-bashing" it to fit your usage? Need a size between two standard options? Buy the next larger size. Study how it is put together, disassemble, cut, add screw holes/peg holes etc. to match the section cut off, put back together. All the rest of the glides and hardware and such will still work. All the add on accessories will still work.

 

[2LaneCruzer]

Normally I don't step in on these type of forums but I'll make an exception since I own a cabinet shop. There are several things to consider. (Keep in mind I own a cabinet shop. Read: what you pay vs what I pay aren't the same.) 1) cost. 2) time. and 3.) Quality.
Cost - plywood is relatively cheap. Time - plywood is quick. Quality - plywood is pain free.
So what about hardwood. Poplar would be my wood of choice. Excellent paint grade and better than other woods. IF you can locate a cabinet shop to sell you some kiln dried straight line ripped lumber and assume you also need planed to thickness.
In a modern home the is heated and A/C all woods are plenty stable enough using proper techniques. Yes plywood is more stable but read last line. My suggestion (based on we have no idea of what dimensions or drawings) would be to use plywood for all drawer boxes, poplar face. Boxes out of plywood and you can use poplar to edge those. Shelving use poplar or plywood with, say 1 1/2" front to prevent sag on either. Also you can buy prefinished maple plywood (unstained) so boxes once assembled are done.
I highly recommend that...big time savor. I'm typing this on my phone if it seems I am rambling.
Over all if you buy the closet organizer stuff it will be quicker and cheaper - cost and quality. I have installed them for others. Would I use them? Sure, in an area that isn't abused or used much..
Here is some trivia for you - old timers were smart.

They used quarter sawn oak for doors, trim, furniture. Expansion and contraction splits doors and causes gaps in miter joints. Quarter sawn expands/contracts with the thickness and not across the face so it alleviates the problem. Pretty smart..

Love quarter sawn Oak; made this for my Grandson maybe 20 years ago.