WORK-DIVIDING CREW TO MAKE 2 SHIFTS ?

[hazmat]

Alan,

Can you give us some more details about your company (what kind of product etc.).

Are you familiar with "Lean" manufacturing? A couple things you mentioned raised red flags - taking years to become proficient at a certain process/machine, many employees out with injuries, not to mention "losing limbs". It sounds to me like your company is in serious need of progress.

A resource for you could be Maine MEP: Lean Training | Performance Based Training | Lean Manufacturing

 

[3RRL]

Alan,
What kind of benefits does your employer pay besides wages?
Hospitalization insurance?
Life insurance?
Dental Insurance?
Sick days?
Vacation pay?
Retirement/401K?
Workman compensation insurance?
How much is that all worth? (How much does the employer pay for each guy?) Do they have an hourly figure or percentage of pay for this? In my company it used to be 38% of his pay rate in benefits.

Another question: Is overtime paid at time and a half?

These are all the benefits that have to be included when hiring additional personnel. Some times (usually) the employer is better off paying overtime at time and a half rather than hiring additional employees. When those employees work overtime, they get a better bang for the buck since the cost of those benefits don't increase (except retirement contributions). They are already in place and consumed over more hours worked by an employee.

There is a limit to the overtime guys can work productively too. Too many overtime hours and they'll see a loss of production for the extra hours worked. In other words, what your guys can do in say 9 or 10 hours will be much more then for a 13 hour shift after a while.

If your employer pays time and a half for overtime, then 5 guys working 56 hour weeks is not the same as 7 guys working 40 hours a week. A 56 hour work week includes 16 hours of overtime at time and a half in that case.
That is 16x1.5=24 hours pay plus 40 hours =64 hours pay.
5x64=320 hours paid. But the company gets only 280 hours of production.
Seven guys at 40 hour weeks = 280 hours paid to them. with 280 of production.
In this case the it costs the company (320-280 = 40) 40 extra hours for those 5 guys.
Now turn that into % of pay. 40hrs/280hrs =20%.
However, consider the costs of the benefits (38%) for the extra 2 guys too. 38% of 80 hours (2 extra guys) =30.4 hours. In this case of 56 hour weeks for 5 guys vs 40 hour weeks for 7 guys, the 7 guys would cost less to get 280 hours of work done. Plus, I would think they would be more productive since 56 hour weeks gets old fast and guys lose their productivity after the first week or so. Their (the company's) accountant could figure that out to limit the number of overtime hours so they find the maximum profit using overtime hours vs. hiring additional employees.

Next, I think you should get some new guys.
I can't blame those guys for not wanting to work all those hours, but man, you gotta perform for your company too. Refusing, tantrums, ignorance, lack of skill, constant absentee (or whatever) ... all those things are just wrong. If you've got guys who are like that, they CAN"T be loving their job. You gotta get some guys in there who love their job and need all the overtime you can give them. Happy gung ho workers makes for a great work atmosphere and translates into much better production and quality.

Have a meeting with your boss and lay out the overtime vs new hires to them to show them when it will be profitable to hire more guys vs too much overtime.
Hire 2 top men and 2 more medium guys and 2 more apprentices. Divide the new guys with the old guys into another shift with about 1 hour over lap so they can communicate where the 1st shift left off.
When things slow down a little, keep the good guys and send the bums packing to your competitor.
In your position, if you can get excellent production from your crew(s), it will be job security and if they are really good, your job will be ten times easier too.
Remember, if your company does not make any money, neither will you. Life is real.

Ok, that's my 2 cents worth. I'm ready to get flamed now.

 

[escavader]

RoN ,
Near the end of my first post is a line that says hours can only range from 5.30 to 7.oo moday thru saturday.SORRY SHOULD have made that clearer.WE cannot work sundays,or after 7.00 due to some local noise ordinances or some kind of ordinance.so you see im only looking at 78 hours for two shifts.I would somehow have to overlap the shifts.We had a night shift[until 7] crew,and a weekend crew[saturday]but us experienced people ended up having to be there both,or one with 4 rookies and that was enough to pull out anyones hair.
Years past at another company they had an after school shift and saturday shift,with one good operator.Back then no one needed a licence,and you didnt have to be 18 to work in this type of job.OSHA has stopped that.If we had one good experienced guy with no kids and a spouse who also worked nights we could do something similar,with each of us licenced people taking turns on overtime at night. Dont got that person. PLEASE KEEP TRYING
ALAN

 

[escavader]

hazmat,
i cannot give out much more info about my work[although from previous post ,you all know im a ........ ...... ........,and a ....... ..... person,and mechanic.]Idont want to give my companys name,they would probably chew my butt,if they knew i asked these questions on a public site.With all the vast knowledge on tbn,and having no one with ideas ,i finally chose to ask here.Idont want to give false impressions ,if i didnt like my job,i could easily choose another company and change.As far as the safety thing no one has ever lost a limb [it aint gonna happen on my watch],we have gone several years without incident,but it seems the more we work ,the more injurys are occuring.As for myself i have been flipping ...... for 25 years,plus every thing else under the sun,so it is my time i guess your body wearsout just like the bedplate on the ...... will.Istill have a strong back,and with a little snip snip the wrist should heal ,and according to the doctors some of the feeling will come back in my hand.Modern mills have ...... ........ so you dont have to turn ...... all day im looking into that ,although i dont think the boss will go for it.3RR ,we have all the benefits you stated plus normally good bonuses twice a year,and a profit sharing check dumped in our 401 k S.I have seen some amazing things from the owner -donations ,helping needy,paying all the hospital bills of a dyeing worker.giving money to a sick worker.I for one appreciate this and try to go the extra mile to make him successful,but it seems the extra mile is never enough.YES WE GET TIME AND A HALF
I dont agree with the new guy thing,cause im the one that has to train them,and my ...... ....... is challenging enough,without running back and forth figuring out why the ...... stopped and the ...... are burning ,or directing the ........ drivers every move,making sure the ..... are being loaded with the right product,and are not being over or under cooked.etc etc.rookie ...... i can deal with,but i need experienced people too,so let the attitudes fly i guess.Besides the crew does what i ASK them.but revolt when the supervisor does because he has no repect cause he is worthless.
ALAN

 

[billbill1]

I am a supervisor and have had to deal with these issues in the past. Your equipment will start breaking down on a more frequent timeframe with the additional hours of operation, no question, it's going to happen. You have 6 perople to do the work no matter how you divide it up. You can work 3 of the crew from 5:30 am until 1:30 pm Monday through Saturday and the other 3 work 11:00am until 7:00 pm Monday through Friday. Swap crews every week or two weeks or monthly. Let the late crew volunteer for Saturday if they want the overtime but don't make it madatory for them. Make this the schedule and anyone that doesn't want it or refuses it, let them leave, they aren't worth keeping. Present this to your co-workers and allow them to buy into it, knowing that this is how it has to be without any flexibility. Allow the late shift permanently if it is desired but it has to be a swap between willing workers. This will allow maximum production everyday Monday through Friday and 8 hours for Saturday with half the crew getting 2 days off per week. Overtime can be allowed for the early crew to stay over or the late crew coming in early but not madatory. Nobody gets worked to death unless they volunteer to do it and all get at least equal time off. The two licensed guys will have to be on opposing crews no matter what and any swapping between them has to be agreeable to both or it doesn't happen-period.

 

[WVaHillbilly]

Alan,

Can you give us some more details about your company (what kind of product etc.).

Are you familiar with "Lean" manufacturing? A couple things you mentioned raised red flags - taking years to become proficient at a certain process/machine, many employees out with injuries, not to mention "losing limbs". It sounds to me like your company is in serious need of progress.

A resource for you could be Maine MEP: Lean Training | Performance Based Training | Lean Manufacturing

That sounds like Lean, Lean Six Sigma and Lean Manufacturing

We have been under that program for over a year and, well what I have seen I ah................

 

[RonMar]

RoN ,
Near the end of my first post is a line that says hours can only range from 5.30 to 7.oo moday thru saturday.SORRY SHOULD have made that clearer.WE cannot work sundays,or after 7.00 due to some local noise ordinances or some kind of ordinance.so you see im only looking at 78 hours for two shifts.I would somehow have to overlap the shifts.We had a night shift[until 7] crew,and a weekend crew[saturday]but us experienced people ended up having to be there both,or one with 4 rookies and that was enough to pull out anyones hair.
Years past at another company they had an after school shift and saturday shift,with one good operator.Back then no one needed a licence,and you didnt have to be 18 to work in this type of job.OSHA has stopped that.If we had one good experienced guy with no kids and a spouse who also worked nights we could do something similar,with each of us licenced people taking turns on overtime at night. Dont got that person. PLEASE KEEP TRYING
ALAN

Sorry, I missed the hour restriction parts. Unless there is room in the workplace to work 2 teams at the same time, this problem is a tough one to crack. You say you have a liscenced operator position? Is there more than one of these machines to operate so 2 of these people can work at the same time(2 teams on parallel shifts)? If not, this problem most likley can't be resolved. Sounds like time to relocate/expand to a location that can handle two parallel teams, or work 2 shifts without disturbing the neighbors. It is that or cut back production/profits to fit the available workspace and manhours or loose what good people you have to discontenetment or injury. Good people are smart, and smart people know when to move on...

But short term, I agree that you need some better people, or at least weed out the plodders/slackers. they drag everyone down and build bad attitudes "How come we get paid the same when I have to cover his *** so much".

The best performance I have ever seen is when people take ownership of the job. It is difficult to find and more importantly inspire people to take ownership, but when it happens, it is a beautiful thing.

Good Luck.

 

[escavader]

I am a supervisor and have had to deal with these issues in the past. Your equipment will start breaking down on a more frequent timeframe with the additional hours of operation, no question, it's going to happen. You have 6 perople to do the work no matter how you divide it up. You can work 3 of the crew from 5:30 am until 1:30 pm Monday through Saturday and the other 3 work 11:00am until 7:00 pm Monday through Friday. Swap crews every week or two weeks or monthly. Let the late crew volunteer for Saturday if they want the overtime but don't make it madatory for them. Make this the schedule and anyone that doesn't want it or refuses it, let them leave, they aren't worth keeping. Present this to your co-workers and allow them to buy into it, knowing that this is how it has to be without any flexibility. Allow the late shift permanently if it is desired but it has to be a swap between willing workers. This will allow maximum production everyday Monday through Friday and 8 hours for Saturday with half the crew getting 2 days off per week. Overtime can be allowed for the early crew to stay over or the late crew coming in early but not madatory. Nobody gets worked to death unless they volunteer to do it and all get at least equal time off. The two licensed guys will have to be on opposing crews no matter what and any swapping between them has to be agreeable to both or it doesn't happen-period.

Thats exactly what i was looking for!!! THANK YOU
And thank you to all,ive used a few of everyones ideas in the plan.On a personal note ,i can probably handle this shift and still have a family life.I had no choice ,but to pick myself to be a team leader.THATS GONNA COST THEM,DEARLY,OR THEY CAN LOOK ELSEWHERE
Ive divided the crew up in two teams,5 on each crew.Ihave kept 3 of my new guys with me,and thought of a former man.who i will recruit.hes not the greatest ,but he shows up every day.
Team 2 consists of 3 vetererns and 2 rookies
It even looks like there still might be possibilitys of job swappingon bothteams
company will have to give me 2 people from in house ,hire 2 from outside.
first shifters go on lunch at 11,covered by 2nd shifters.
2nd shifters go on break at 1.15 covered by ist shifters...then they go home. [SEE I JUST ADDED 45 MINUTES PRODUCTION TIME ]
Now help me with the last issue:
vacation time,alot of us get 2 to 4 weeks
people calling in sick
unless you make it mandatory,you have to cover for the opposite team,it seems impossible.with the past history we got we will be right back to square 1.WHATS THE ANSWER???
ALAN

 

[AlanB]

Out of the box thinking maybe but have you thought about peice production pay, or some other incentive such as that to make it work?

If you look at Lincoln Electric Company (Lincoln welders) they have a VERY different pay structure that works extremely well for them. I for one was VERY impressed when I went to school there and saw the production floor.

On a more conventional note, If I was faced with the problem you are, I would gather my guys together (I would probably buy Pizza) have everyone up in the front office, and say, HEY, we got a problem. We need to XXXXXXX how do we get there? Then listen, moderate, and try and temper the people that will come out with plain negative, it ain't gonna happen comments, and encourage the guys to talk that have some off the wall or goofy ideas.

If you can get the team to see the problem that you / management see's, often times they have a solution, and if they helped come up with it, it is that much easier for them to swallow then to deal with doing "what management said"

I guess I would tell you there is no "answer" probably a lot of partial solutions.

As my boss often says, we take two steps forward, figure out where we went wrong, back up a bit, then move forward again. All in all that is about as good as it gets from my experience.