Work Shop 220v Receptacle?

Inspector507 · Dec 28, 2003

Mike,
I (my profession) can only protect the safety of people so far.

The big issue with a welder is, it will never pull 50 amps for an hour. If you weld for a solid hour, chances are your toasting your welder. The unit needs the 50 Amp breaker for the inrush when you strike the arc. Besides, you need to consider the duty factor of the welder when sizing your overcurrent device. Some welders have a duty factor as low as 20%......meaning out of every minute, you should only run it 12 minutes. That is an extreme yes, but they are out there.

yellowdog99502 · Dec 28, 2003

most folks will see that same circuit and say to themselves that if it is OK to use a welder in an overcurrent condition then why can't we plug in our other 220-volt high current tools on the same circuit and get by. Hey the welder worked didn’t it? "a potential exists" 

PineRidge, you have hit a huge issue that those charged with enforcing our building laws face everyday. We cannot AND must not attempt to enforce codes on the "what-if" philosophy.

Building codes (laws after they are legally adopted) are the minimum standard. Is it permissable to use a #10 wire on a 50 amp circuit for a electric welder, certainly, Section 630 of the 2002 NEC says so. Could you use a #6? Of course. Nothing restricts us from exceeding the code as it is a minimum.

There are a multitude of issues in all of our model codes that tend to confuse the casual user; why do we require a guardrail when the fall height is more than 30 inches? Can not one be hurt just as badly in a fall from 30 inches? Or why is it that the code has established a certain stair geometry for 20 years that, at last count, 38 states promptly amend? Why do some areas require carbon monoxide detectors when others do not?

Rambling again, man I gotta learn to stop that! Building laws are a minimum, as a building official, I would defend Inspector 507 in his citing and application of this code section. There is not a 'just' court in this country that would do otherwise. On the other hand, an inspector who makes up his own rules or writes a correction order based on the possibility that a "potential exists" would get his walking papers. Right or wrong in your mind, we cannot legislate against stupidity or careless actions, we must leave that to Darwin.

Inspector507 · Dec 28, 2003

Don,
I restrained myself in my last post... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I "almost" said.......You can protect the idiots from themselves.

Oh yeah.......thanks for the back-up /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

PineRidge · Dec 28, 2003

Inspector507, I meant no disrespect to you, I hope none was taken.

Inspector507 · Dec 28, 2003

None was taken..... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I didn't intend to be so mean......" Don't scare anyone else "
It does meet code, it is safe as long as the user understands whats it's there for. Now if someone un-knowing plugged a 50 Amp load in there......well Houston we have a problem.
A welder outlet is kinda unique, not many other "appliances" come with that plug configuration on them.

I know ONE thing, but they pay me to know it well /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Deerlope · Dec 28, 2003

Inspector;
I have been having trouble all morning trying to login but I got it. I well understand what your are explaining. But I have been taught all my working career that a breaker only protects the wire and not the device. The point that I was trying to make was that if there was a malfunction between the breaker and the outlet that with the 50 amp bkr. and the #10 wire that there would be a problem. Thanks for explaining it so well.

Inspector507 · Dec 28, 2003

If there was a malfunction between the breaker and the equipment.......the breakers short circuit function takes over and kicks it off

TWINKLE_TOES · Dec 30, 2003

Would you approve an installation using a 50Amp breaker and #10 wire, connected to a 50 Amp range outlet? I seriously doubt it.

CTyler · Dec 30, 2003

What is the point of your question?

Junkman · Dec 30, 2003

( What is the point of your question? )

The point of his question is obvious... to annoy Inspector507! If he read the previous posts, and understands the spoken language and the written word, then he knows that it wouldn't be approved because it doesn't meet code. He is just being ludicrous and not even remotely funny in my opinion. However, some people will ask foolish questions knowingly just to see what type of response that they can illicit from the members. This is not a "flame", but merely an observation of the facts as I see them...... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif