world trade center

Anonymous Poster · Sep 17, 2001

would like to hear some mainstream Mulsim academics and clerics respond. 

Virtually every leader and Muslim academic in the WORLD, including the USA, has condemned in unambiguous words, these horrifying and insane bombings of the World Trade Center and Pentagon.

All of the leading Muslim organizations have repeatedly held news conferences and issued press releases stating their positions clearly.

Unfortunately, they have been utterly IGNORED by the totally biased US media.

One example below, was issued on the day of the attack within a few hours...

U.S. Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks

(WASHINGTON, DC - 9/11/2001) - The American Muslim Political Coordination Council (AMPCC)*, today condemned the apparent terrorist attacks in New York and Washington and offered condolences to the families of those who were killed or injured.

The AMPCC statement read in part:

"American Muslims utterly condemn what are apparently vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts."

* The AMPCC consists of American Muslim Alliance, American Muslim Council, Council on American-Islamic Relations, and Muslim Public Affairs Council (in aggregate they represent perhaps 80%+ of US Muslims).

An Unbiased Observer

Jugger · Sep 17, 2001

Re: The assertion of Terrorists being predominantly Muslim and Delivery to Allah upon death.

First of all, as Pitbull so accurately pointed out, let us not forget about:

McVeigh, Kazcinski, the Irish Republican Army in Northern Ireland (Christians, if I'm not mistaken), the Carlos cartel in Mexico, the warlords in Somalia (who attacked our soldiers in the early '90's), the Japanese group who used Sarin gas in the subway system of Japan, the Rev. Moon followers (who grew their own Salmonella bacteria and poured it over the salad bars in various restaurants in Oregan during the '80's).

NOT MUSLIM; NOT ARABIC.

We should learn to focus our energy on educating ourselves, as opposed to spreading illegitimate gossip and opinion.

Furthermore, the Islamic religion does not condone suicide or murder. And neither does Christianity.

However, certain individuals and groups, who usually have a political or ideological agenda, have perverted the basic teachings of their respective religions to meet the needs of their cause.

In the case of bin Laden, he teaches that all who die for the "cause" will go straight to Allah. This is not unlike the Crusaders who believed they were doing the work of their God by murdering Muslims in the Middle Ages, or the Christians who murdered thousands during the Inquisition.

As an atheist, I do not find solace in the belief that a God can be prayed to and good things will come as a result (in fact, I find this offensive that "non-praying" believers would be ignored). However, I respect personal freedom of thought, and I am glad that many people do derive serenity from such practices. It is ironic that so many believers do not afford the same consideration to those who differ from them.

Jugger

Jugger · Sep 17, 2001

Jenkins,

It took me awhile to post my thought, and I see that you did a much more thorough and accurate job of saying the same sorts of things I was attempting to convey.

Jugger

Anonymous Poster · Sep 17, 2001

Jugger, as an atheist perhaps you can answer a question. If there is no "god" or higher being that establishes right from wrong, isn't it hypocritical of you to question or criticize the actions of these people, after all if morallity is based on majority beleifs then these people are the poster child of morality amoung those who share their beleifs. Never did beleive in atheists.

PaulT · Sep 17, 2001

Jenkins,

I appreciate your points, but I think you missed one of mine. What I would like to hear some mainstream Muslim academics and clerics respond to is the position we hear regarding the way to martydom in Islam. I am really very interested to know the academic basis in religious teaching for the suicide bombers. Of course EVERY rational human being would condemn this act. I would like to have someone who knows address the basis for the act in terms the terrorists preach/teach, even if the analyst addressing it does not share that point of view.

PaulT

Jugger · Sep 17, 2001

40acres,

Your question relies on assumption that God establishes right from wrong.

While this may or may not be true, I think it is within the realm of possibility that "man" can determine his own rules governing morality, ethics and the things we call values. I do remember this from Sunday school: "Treat others as you would have them treat you (a good lesson, by the way)."

If there is just one God (and every religion claims their God is the correct one), maybe YOU can explain the phenomenon of why there are so many interpretations of God's will, and furthermore, why they differ in their determination of right vs. wrong.

Believing in God is not a prerequisite for human thought, and human compassion. Nor does a belief in God give someone the ability to judge others. We ALL are quite capable of doing both, regardless of our convictions.

"Never did beleive in atheists."

Well, I never did believe in being a sheep. So, if your belief system has no room for people like me - I suppose I'm left to suffer the cost. Besides, I prefer to make my own decisions based on what make sense to me.

Jugger

Anonymous Poster · Sep 17, 2001

My question is what points your moral compass? I think it is within the realm of possibility that "man" can determine his own rules governing morality, ethics and the things we call values. Does that mean if 3 men and a woman are ship wrecked and the men "determine their own rules governing morality, ethics and the things we call values" is to rape the woman then this is moral? If not what would make it immoral? There must be absolute right and absolute wrong, and it cannot be based on "human determination".

Anonymous Poster · Sep 17, 2001

Re: Suicide Bombings and Islam - A Direct Question

Someone asked for leading Muslim clerics to respond...

In the first place I wish to speak directly to all members of this forum and also to all the people of America. Please accept from one humble Muslim my most sincere expression of sympathy and sadness over your practically unimaginable suffering and loss of September 11, 2001.

It pains my heart to see some of the comments made in anger, ignorance and rage. I do understand how such feelings arise. It is natural to want to lash out and to feel anger. But it also is not correct to perpetuate wrongs upon untold millions more innocents.

I wish to share the remarks below which I have gathered from the most recent law rulings issued by the leading "Ulema" (religious scholars) of Islam. As you can see, they are united in their condemnation of behaviors such as hijackings, suicide bombings and similar maniacal acts.

Islam means "peace." Though it is difficult now I realize for you to accept this truth, please do know that in the clearest part of my mind and the cleanest part of my heart, I wish you and all of the true people of America, my heartfelt prayers that the All Merciful Lord will cover you with His mercy, and protect us all. Amen.

No one asked me to post remarks here. I became aware of this excellent community forum because some members of my community also own and operate compact tractors, and made me aware of these discussions.

Shaikh Hazrat Muin-al Haqq
Director
Dar ul-Iman
US Headquarters
(Ours is a Muslim service organization
originally founded in India 900 years ago,
with 20 million members worldwide).

Can you tell me if these suicide bombings to kill CIVILIANS is consistent with Islamic teachings?

The following fatawa (religious decisions) were made by the top living Islamic scholars, regarded by Muslims the world over as true 'ulema (the most learned) of our era.

1) Attacking the enemy by blowing oneself up in a car.

Question: What is the ruling regarding acts of jihad (religious war) by means of suicide, such as attaching explosives to a car and storming the enemy, whereby he knows without a doubt that he shall die as a result of this action?

Response: Indeed, my opinion is that he is regarded as one who has killed himself (committed suicide), and as a result he shall be punished in Hell, for that which is authenticated on the authority of the Prophet (Peace be upon him):

"Indeed, whoever (intentionally) kills himself, then certainly he will be punished in the Fire of Hell, wherein he shall dwell forever." (from Shahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, the books of the sayings and rulings of the Prophet Muhammad himself).

And it is so surprising, that these people kill themselves despite Allah (God) having fordbidden this Himself. As He (God) says:

"And do not kill yourselves. Surely, Allah is Most Merciful to you}, [Qur'an, Surah an-Nisaa., Verse 29].

-- Decision by Shaykh Ibn al-'Uthaymeen
Kayfa Nu'aalij Waaqi'unaa al-Aleem - Page 119

2) Committing suicide

Question: What is the ruling regarding suicide in Islam?

Response: Suicide is when a person kills himself intentionally by whatever means. This is haram (utterly forbidden) and regarded as amongst the major sins, and likewise included in the general statement of Allah (God):

"And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell to abide therein,
and the Wrath and the Curse of Allaah are upon him, and a great punishment is prepared for him." [Qur'an, Surah an-Nisaa, Verse 93].

-- Decision from Shaykh Ibn al-'Uthaymeen
Kayfa Nu'aalij Waaqi'unaa al-Aleem - Page 120

3) Hijacking planes and kidnapping

From that which is known to everyone who has the slightest bit of common sense is that hijacking airplanes and kidnapping children and the like are extremely great crimes, the world over. Their evil effects are far and wide, as is the great harm and inconvenience caused to the innocent; the total effect of which none can comprehend except Allah (God).

Likewise, from that which is known is that these crimes are not specific to any particular country over and above another country, nor any specific group over and above another group, rather it encompasses the whole world.

There is no doubt about the effect of these crimes; so it is obligatory upon the governments and those responsible from amongst the scholars and other than them to afford these issues great concern, and to exert themselves as much as possible in ending this evil.

-- Decision from Shaykh Ibn Baaz
Kayfa Nu'aalij Waaqi'unaa al-Aleem - Page 108-109

4) Hijacking planes and ships

Question: There are some people who hijack a plane or a ship, and do so to apply pressure upon the country to which this plane or ship is headed. It is possible they threaten to kill the passengers, and in some cases actually kill some of them, until
their demands are met. So what is the ruling about such actions, especially since such actions terrify the passengers?

Response: It is a responsibility upon (every) country to provide sufficient security to prevent the likes of these rebels from taking over (planes or ships). It is upon the (respective) country to provide every airline with security which is sufficient to resist any hijack attempts by the aggressors; just as they should also co-ordinate a full (passenger) inspection prior to (their) boarding.

Thus, they should not permit anyone to proceed (to board) until after they have ascertained that no-one is in possession of weapons even if it be (a piece of) metal (bar or the like). In addition to this, some gangs force the aircraft to divert to another destination, so if there are (amongst the crew or passengers) anyone with sufficient physical training to overpower them, then the rebels' plans will be destroyed.

So there is no doubt that hijacking is a mistake, ignorance and falsehood. Further, it is a transgression beyond the limits causing terror to the passengers …

-- Decision by Shaykh Ibn Jibreen
Kayfa Nu'aalij Waaqi'unaa al-Aleem - Page 113

====

In sum, there is no question whatsoever, that the doctrines and actions of Islam have ALWAYS been opposed to and condemned suicide bombings, kidnappings, and the like. That a few deranged persons do such actions and claim it in the name of any religion or government, does not alter the facts and reality of the Islamic religion with regard to such erroneous and despicable behaviors.