Worried about Jobs

[Bird]

Yeah, Robert, folks do tend to add a few things to motorcycles as we do with tractors./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif When I bought my '85 Aspencade, I added a driver's back rest, foot rests on the crash bars, wool seat cover, cruise control, trailer hitch; you know; just the necessities./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird

 

[RobertN]

I agree. There are a lot of "If's". A lot of stuff simply isn't made here any more. And, of the stuff that is, it is usually more expensive than a comparable import.

But, how can the US compete when international labor is available for $1, or $2 an hour. So, there's 5$ in materials, and an hours labor in making a clock radio. That's a $6 clock, before shippnig and retail markup, ect. So now, here in the US, you have $5 worth of parts, and an hour labor at $10. There's a $15 clock, before the othe add on expenses. I made up the amounts, but the picture is there.

I don't know anyone that wants to take a pay cut to $1 or $2 an hour, or maybe less. I don't, and I'm sure you don't. And businesses are squeezed out because they cant lower those wages without going external.

There are other things that go into the formula too, like quality and such. Labor is just one part of it.

Yes, you do keep some $$$ here, even if buying an import. Look at your John Deere/Yanmar. A lot of the assembly is done here. Some parts of the new tractors like the 4000 series, like the Dana front axles, are made here. There is no disputing it keeps some $$$ here.

RobertN in Shingle Springs Calif

 

[Wingnut]

I remember when a friend moved from his Wing to a Harley back in the mid-80's when the "new evo" came out ... bragged about how much better it was ... no oil leaks .... for 3 months. Then it started to christen the garage floor ...
I also have an ex-Harley riding friend who had switched to a Wing and had his (ex) buddies stop riding with him after a trip from Edmonton to Vancouver (800 miles). The ride went like: ride an hour, stop to fix one of the Hogs, ride for another hour, stop and fix another , etc, etc ... he got double the gas mileage and no breakdowns ... they didn't want to ride with him again.
Hey, I understand the H-D actually stands for Hardly Driveable???
OK ... enough kidding ... and I was kidding, guys. Ride what you enjoy ... just ride.
I very well remember that wonderful deal that Harley managed to get from the friendly US Gov'mint. They whined about how they couldn't compete with the foreign bikes ... so when I bought an AMERICAN-MADE Honda GoldWing in Canada ... I was supposed to pay the extra 17% tariff for a foreign bike. (I bought mine before the tariff was attached). I don't believe the Gold Wing - at least after the Interstate and Aspencade were started in 81/82 - was built anywhere except Marysville Ohio ... but, by gum, it was a HONDA and that's foreign ... doggone it!

OK ... off that soapbox and onto another.
I have no problem with buying American .... but I would like to point out that we make a big, big deal of exporting everything we can. "trade" actually requires 2 parties.
Second ... I do have a problem with "Union Made in the USA". That label says, to me, don't buy me ... all the profits will go to the mafia and liberal politicians.
There, I should have gotten lots of people up in arms.
(I didn't go looking for Made in Canada stuff when I lived in Canada, either ... since that usually meant shoddy union made crap from Ontario or Quebec ... we had no manufacturing in Alberta ... and got screwed by the "east" everytime we turned around.
Man, I did work far too many hours today ... time to hit the hay and relax .... had to put up with a dipstick Belgian all day who wants to ram an internet marketplace down my throat ... and it's such a total waste of money and resources! Sigh ... some days are not as much fun as others.

too bad that common sense ain't

 

[Boondox]

Wingnut -- I actually agree with some of your union woes. Personally, I'd have a lot more respect for unions if they would offer something to the company. Something like a guarantee that the workforce would be well trained and held to professional standards. An example would be nursing; nurses are required to complete a number of Continuous Medical Education credits each year. This requires them to keep current on the latest developments in their field. If unions did something like that, instead of focusing on increasing benefits and pay (or protecting slackers), they might enjoy better relations with management.

And no, I'm not a manager...just a geek.

Pete

www.GatewayToVermont.com

 

[RobertN]

Wingnut, I've been on both sides... In Sturgis in '95, a buddy ahead of me had his kick start('68 FL) fall off on the freeway. The one trip where I don't wear a helmet, and he almost got me; missed my head by inches.

PH(Pre Harley) I had a Suzuki 550. That bike leaked worse than any Harley I've been around; ran good, but a seal was always going out. I was riding back from Reno at about 11pm one evening. Right by Stateline, I-80 is twisty and turny as it goes along the river. Shazam! The fuse block rattles apart. The only thing I lost was lights... at 11pm, 65mph, and two big rigs bearing down hill two curves back. Oh, there was little to no shoulder either... There was a little pucker factor there /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

It hurts me, but in all reality, bikes like the Kawasaki Vulcan are as US made as any Harley. I looked one time... Harley could get carbs, forks, shocks, and most electrical stuff here instead of abroad. They don't, dang them.

Good global trade and economy is good for all parties. We do not have good balance though. I agree about the unions. After years at Intel, one thing I liked was the meritocrisy(sp) based salary. You do a good job, you get good pay. The union gets raises whether a good job is done or not... Wrong way!

RobertN in Shingle Springs Calif

 

[banjobj]

I believe that in order to have long term economic stability a country needs to have a manufacturing base. Without that we can't have good paying jobs with benefits. It seems that we are headed towards service oriented industries, which tend to be lower paying and offer few or reduced fringe benefits. Just my opinion!!!!!!

 

[cowboydoc]

Banjob,
You are exactly right! We have a skeleton for a mfg. base compared to even 20 years ago. Alot of our jobs and products are now in some foreign country.

 

[JATO_RaT]

Bob, in light of todays events, your worries about jobs seem rather trivial. Working for a large companys certainly has its drawbacks, probably why I find self reliance a huge bonus, I work for myself. Good luck, Rat...

P.S. I think everyone knew it was just a matter of time before the huge ticket items like cars and trucks would see diminished sales. I still cannot believe what they want for new trucks, its unbelievable to me that people actually buy them.

 

[Bird]

<font color=blue>cannot believe what they want for new trucks</font color=blue>

Rat, are you old enought to remember when new pickup trucks cost less than new cars? For my own first pickup truck; a brand new 1969 Chev (admittedly the plainest cheapest model made), I paid $1948.10 after the '70 models came out in the Fall of '69.

Bird

 

[DFB]

Bird,

Brings back memories for me. When I got out high school VW bugs were under $2K. New pickups were under $5K. Muscle cars were all the rage then.


Bpence,

Lots of job losses around here over the past decade. The electronics manufacturing company I used to work for (20 yrs service) has closed 6 facilities in 4 states over the last 5 years. Putting about 10,000 people out of a job. That's always bad enough by itself but then there's the ripple effect that's felt by suppliers and other business that devastates the local economy. New England has had major upheavals in their manufacturing jobs, busting union wages by sending the work down south after a non union labor force willing to work for cheaper wages and down to mexico and beyond. The only business all the areas around here try to promote these days is tourism and the service jobs that come with it. Sooner or later can't be everyone on vacation all the time. Got to be working more than 4 days a week (32hrs). Cutbacks like that are very common here all the time. Our place went 3 years without a raise or new contract at the end.

I don't usually soapbox but here it goes. Like the others have said products have to be manufactured here in the U.S. and purchased by us too. A global economy is great and alternative competition is needed in an open market society but things can't always keep being produced outside our borders either. I'll be first to say that corporate greed in the quest for higher profits is the major cause of most of this, but things like gov't cutbacks in defense spending, closing military bases and the strangulation of business with needless regulations and political correctness BS doesn't help either. On the the other side of the coin is the AMERICAN LABOR FORCE which sometimes isn't all it can be either. Union membership is at an all time low in this country right now. I've been on both sides of the table was 15 yrs in the Union and 5yrs in management, and have seen just what we can be all about. Quite honestly, attitude adjustments are needed all around the table. Things can never stay the same and with the expansion of third world nations into global economics its going to take a serious effort on our part not to lose virtually all our manufacturing base. I just don't see us all getting rich off Daytrading on the NASDAQ. At least not anymore. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Interestingly enough THE HARLEY DAVIDSON CO. IS A MARVELOUS AMERICAN SUCCESS STORY. A company brought back from the verge of going out of business, changing image, refining the product with modern technology and research, creating both a huge domestic and global market, and eventually making profits hand over fist with everyone benifiting by going public, building new facilities, creating jobs AND YES constantly raising selling prices and continuing to have people buy the product. Go figure.

BTW All this talk of old HD'S leaking oil is so lame. Yea sure some might have left a little oil spot if they sat still long enough. So what? It didn't stop the bike from running. All it ever consisted of at worst was poorly sealed primary chaincase cover that a little seal-all would cure. Most times it was traced to only being excess oil draining out of the chain oiler tube that was feed from the oil pump. Harleys today are the most reliable they've ever been. Hey, if they weren't, all the RUBS and YUPS wouldn't be buying them for 20k+. Wouldn't want them to get their manicured hands dirty now would we. (heh,heh) Just push the button and go!

DFB