Worthwhile grass collection system?

[camillit]

My 2305 with a 54" deck has the John Deere 3 bag collection system. This is junk, JD should be ashamed to put their name on it. Yes, it is working properly, nothing clogged, pto rpms are correct, I was going slow. My old 425 pulling a Curtis cart was much better. I had it today when picking up some leaves while cutting the lawn. Leaves are blowing out from under the deck, what a mess.
All this being said, without going to an obnoxious sized commercial cart being pulled behind me with a large hp gas engine waking up the neighbors, any suggestions?

 

[AKfish]

Hmm.. lower the deck another 1/2"?

So, you were mowing grass and then decided to pick up some leaves, too?

Possible the deck just needed to be cleaned?

Sometimes when I get clumps of wet grass stuck to the inside of the deck the suction/discharge characteristics change and the deck just doesn't pick up the clippings nearly as cleanly.

It leaves those "gummy, little green clumps" here and there and especially when I turn --

My $0.02

AKfish

 

[camillit]

Good suggestions...but: deck was cleaned a few weeks ago, and I did lower the deck..actually an inch. You are right..as the leaves blow out from under the deck, when I then they specially blow out the front of the deck and then get sucked up tight to the radiator grill.

 

[cast_and_blast]

I believe they make a "baffle" plate that goes on the bottom of the deck to minimize the deck blow out when bagging. I have a 2305 with a 62C deck and they make one for mine - it's a bolt-on unit the goes on the front of the deck. Essentially it's just a "lip" to keep the contents that are blowing around under the deck contained.

I believe it's around $100 for my 62C, but I'm going off of memory.

I made my own bagging system from a MC519 cart and the powerflow unit - works great! Yes, I do get some blow-out but it hasn't been a problem thus far.

Good luck!

Scott

 

[orlo]

Camillit:

I pretty much agree. 'push' systems suck a lot more than the suck/pull systems. I had a cyclone rake but for some reason got the JD system also. Between having to 'bolt' it on and off, and the fact that it clogs easily and you end up pulling off the blower mount to unclog it is a pain. It also fills up way, way too quick. I was filling it up in 1/2 a lap around my lawn (the big log) when I used it.

I went back to and would recommend a cyclone rake. If I were to buy one again I'd buy a DR unit (instead of the 'cyclone rake' per say) since they blow less dust and empty much easier. Either way you'll be happy with a rear unit.

A lot of folks use the 'trac vac's where are pretty much the same concept but are driven from the rear PTO instead of a separate motor.

On another note what I've been looking for lately is a collection system that doesn't require the MMM. I did find (Turfmaster) some hydraulic dumping powered sweepers but I'd really like something that mulches.

 

[WH401]

It sounds like the bagger isn't able to keep up with what's being cut by the tractor. As long as the tube is clear and the bag isn't full, then it should pick everything right up and you shouldn't have a problem. Though from I have experienced, the tow behind cart's that have a seperate engine mounted on them with a blower fan seem to do much better than the rear mount systems. Does it blow the leaves out one specific side or just in all directions?

 

[jdbower]

Not sure where you're located, but this is my first New England fall and the leaves here are as abrasive as Red Sox fans The MCS is really designed to collect grass clippings and light leaf cover, I had an overabundance of leaves on my lawn and I just got through using the MCS to clean them up. Even though there was several weeks of accumulation on the yard I've found that the real limiting factor was the bag size - I could make one pass and then I needed to empty. After a while I discovered that if I keep going after the tube fills up I end up chopping the leaves up but there's no place for them to go. This is great (as long as the MCS impeller drive belt doesn't start to slip) because the next pass I can fill up the bags with fresh leaves and then redo the chopped leaves which, being much denser, compact the whole leaves I had just done. Even still I ended up needing to make two passes to clear the windrows (which usually happen on the MCS side of the mower), but this cleanup pass was just fine.

Like many things it's all about compromise. The MCS does a decent job at most of the stuff I throw at it, it's a cinch to remove when I pull into the shed, there's no separate motor to maintain, and I don't need to tow a cart. However the lack of a separate motor means there's less power for large amounts of materials (like in the fall) and it clogs more easily; and the lack of a tow cart means that I need to empty the bags frequently. There's a good reason why the higher end systems are more expensive and larger. I simply needed to figure out a good technique to deal with the limitations of the tools I have available and I think it's an acceptable compromise over upgrading to a big Cyclone system.

 

[RalphVa]

Just grind up the leaves by going around, discharging inward so that you keep regrinding the same leaves. When the machine has trouble maintaining speed, reverse direction for a couple rounds. Then turn around and discharge inward again. Used to do this on our 4 to 5 acre lawn at our church property in NJ with several big oak trees on it. The leaves were small enough to not smother the grass.

Before this, they had an impossible-to-maintain Sears tractor with mowing deck underneath, a big engine sitting behind the driver's seat and sucking from a duct off the mowing deck discharging to a trailer behind with a canvas house over it. Unbelievably noisey affair.

Even better is to simply use a mulching mower. That's all I've ever used on my own property.

Ralph

 

[WH401]

Have you ever tried Gator blades?, I have heard they chop the material up in to much smaller pieces than what a regular blade could. That sounds like it would help your blockage problem.

 

[CHDinCT]

Camillit:
I went back to and would recommend a cyclone rake. If I were to buy one again I'd buy a DR unit (instead of the 'cyclone rake' per say) since they blow less dust and empty much easier. Either way you'll be happy with a rear unit.

Camillit,

Not sure how old your Cyclone rake is or which model you have. I bought mine in 2004 and called them on an issue with the black plastic baffle that hangs down from the screen. That's when I found out they were offering an upgraded bag that is bigger (285 gal's vs 200) and is wedge shaped so the back end is wider than the front, supposedly to ease emptying. My 2004 unit has some webbing at the lower back corners (plus being square), it's difficult to empty. Anyway, they quoted me about $150 for the new bag that would go on my existing frame. It comes with two wings you mount to the back frame that allow you to move the frame outward at each side. I didn't get it for this year since I'm almost done with leaves, but I'll probably pick it up for next year.

 

[josie]

Camillit:

I pretty much agree. 'push' systems suck a lot more than the suck/pull systems. I had a cyclone rake but for some reason got the JD system also. Between having to 'bolt' it on and off, and the fact that it clogs easily and you end up pulling off the blower mount to unclog it is a pain. It also fills up way, way too quick. I was filling it up in 1/2 a lap around my lawn (the big log) when I used it.

I went back to and would recommend a cyclone rake. If I were to buy one again I'd buy a DR unit (instead of the 'cyclone rake' per say) since they blow less dust and empty much easier. Either way you'll be happy with a rear unit.

A lot of folks use the 'trac vac's where are pretty much the same concept but are driven from the rear PTO instead of a separate motor.

On another note what I've been looking for lately is a collection system that doesn't require the MMM. I did find (Turfmaster) some hydraulic dumping powered sweepers but I'd really like something that mulches.

ORLO-your just the guy I needed to hear from. I'm in the market for a leaf collection system. I was considering the Cyclone Rake or the MC519 cart. It's good to hear from someone who has used both. What cyclone model do you have? I'm considering the commander to use with my John Deere X530. I was at the Cyclone factory yesterday and heading to my local John Deere dealer today to look at the MC519. I'm leaning towards the Cyclone right now. Both are about the same price to connect to my machine. I like the Cyclone because it folds up for storage which is good for me. I also can use the cyclone on my fathers machine at his house without hauling my John Deere here as well. I just need to get an extra hitch plate and a boot for his machine. Any other comments are welcome to help with my decision.

 

[orlo]

Josie:

Just to clarify I've used the PowerFlow collection System on my 2305 (Not sure the model #), and the Cyclone rake Commercial (Circa 2004). It has a 6hp Tecumseh engine on it and a huge fabric hopper. I got the dual casters.

The only possible advantage I'd say for the power flow system is it's more compact since it's mounted on the tractor but I wouldn't buy it again. It also empties very, very easily - The CR Doesn't - (Don't believe the videos). Again, a pain to unclog, clogs often, doesn't hold much compared to the CR, etc. Also, on the 2305 the mounts BOLT on, making using the 3pt a pain. These days I typically only use my Power flow system on the 2305 for leaf collection in the fall, I mulch all other times. I have used the CR on the 2305, a 3320 and 3820 with a 72" deck and it kept up will all of them no problem.

One other note on the PF system. It sucks a LOT of power from your mower. On the 2305 I didn't so much notice the power loss as the just about doubling (maybe more) of fuel consumption. Not sure how much HP it takes but it takes that HP all the time whether you are cutting a lot of material or not - As long as the deck is engaged it's using a lot of HP. Note that the fuel consumption on the CR isn't great either but at least it doesn't take any power away from the mower/deck.

If I was considering guying a cyclone rake (again) I think I'd get a DR model instead.The fabric bags clump the material. Unless it's dry leaves it isn't going to slide out like the video shows. You'll be digging it out since the sides 'pucker' outward and stop it from sliding. The DR has hard plastic sides which I think would really be slick to slide the material out.

I would also get fixed wheels instead of casters if possible. If you are used to a trailer and don't mind do it. The casters are really a pain in the *****. Also if you are trying to get close to a house, car, or obstacle you need to turn away very, very, very slowly to avoid whacking anything, you don't have that problem with a trailer type setup. I know DR offers that, not sure about CR. Also the caster tires wear out quickly since they oscillate from side to side.

The DR's have a lifetime guaranteed metal impeller that looks like it would do a good job (I know folks with it and they like it). I will say the impeller on the CR which they claim is pretty much indestructible is. Mine doesn't show much wear after all the use I've put it through and I don't think I have any chips or anything on it. You could blow crushed rocks with it all day and the impeller would hold up (You'd shoot a hole in the chute though... .

 

[josie]

Thanks for the input. I've pretty much decided on the Cyclone Rake. I looked at the JD powerflow with the cart. Not really impressed considering it's about the same price as the CR and doesn't have it's own engine. I was quoted $1473 for the CR with dual casters and $1486 for the JD PF with the MC519 cart. I watched a video at the JD dealer of a machine using the powerflow. At one point in the video it looked like the PF unit weighed down the deck on the side where the PF unit mounted. I'm not too worried about having to "assist" the material when I dump it. I realize I'm not going to eliminate all manual labor with whatever system I go with. I have been told that the newer CR units have been redesigned to dump better than older models. Not sure how much "improved" means but I'll find out. Anyway I also looked at the Trac Vac set up. The Trac Vac was over $2000 for a similar in size set up. I decided to go with the CR set up for a few reasons.

1) The CR unit folds up and requires little storage space. This is probably the best feature for me since I don't have a lot of space to store a seasonal piece of equipment this size.

2) In choosing the CR over the JD PF system the JD cart is a 19 bushel unit. The CR Commander (the model I am looking at buying) is a 32 bushel unit. Also I believe the CR will actually do a better job at leaf clean up which will be my primary use.

3) If I ever get a different brand tractor (not that I'm planning on it) I can still use the CR with it. I will just have to buy a new boot to attach to whatever mower deck I get. Unlike the PF unit that will only adapt to a JD without a lot of fabrication.

4) I can let my father borrow the CR for his yard if he buys a hitch plate and a boot for his craftsmen without having to haul my JD to his house also (about 35 miles). With the ability to quickly collapse and dismantle the CR he can easily haul the whole thing back and forth in his mini van if he wanted.

 

[orlo]

Thanks for the input. I've pretty much decided on the Cyclone Rake. I looked at the JD powerflow with the cart. Not really impressed considering it's about the same price as the CR and doesn't have it's own engine. I was quoted $1473 for the CR with dual casters and $1486 for the JD PF with the MC519 cart. I watched a video at the JD dealer of a machine using the powerflow. At one point in the video it looked like the PF unit weighed down the deck on the side where the PF unit mounted. I'm not too worried about having to "assist" the material when I dump it. I realize I'm not going to eliminate all manual labor with whatever system I go with. I have been told that the newer CR units have been redesigned to dump better than older models. Not sure how much "improved" means but I'll find out. Anyway I also looked at the Trac Vac set up. The Trac Vac was over $2000 for a similar in size set up. I decided to go with the CR set up for a few reasons.

1) The CR unit folds up and requires little storage space. This is probably the best feature for me since I don't have a lot of space to store a seasonal piece of equipment this size.

2) In choosing the CR over the JD PF system the JD cart is a 19 bushel unit. The CR Commander (the model I am looking at buying) is a 32 bushel unit. Also I believe the CR will actually do a better job at leaf clean up which will be my primary use.

3) If I ever get a different brand tractor (not that I'm planning on it) I can still use the CR with it. I will just have to buy a new boot to attach to whatever mower deck I get. Unlike the PF unit that will only adapt to a JD without a lot of fabrication.

4) I can let my father borrow the CR for his yard if he buys a hitch plate and a boot for his craftsmen without having to haul my JD to his house also (about 35 miles). With the ability to quickly collapse and dismantle the CR he can easily haul the whole thing back and forth in his mini van if he wanted.

Josie: You won't be disappointed, and I didn't mention that the CR does come apart nicely and hangs up on the wall - That's the way I store mine. I agree with all your points. If you have 'nooks and crannies' it's worth getting the hose extension although it's pricey. Also, the urethane hoses upgrade is pricey but I've never cut or punctured my hoses yet and I've had it since 2004. They are pretty tough.