X540... PLEASE HELP

[VTtractorguy]

Hi guys. I bought a new JD X540 tractor with 54 inch deck and am having a problem that hopefully you can help me solve.

I have had the tractor about two months now and in that time it increasingly has difficulty engaging the deck without stalling the engine. The manual says to engage the PTO at full throttle which I do. But even at that, engaging it takes the RPMs down at least half and stalls it about 50 percent of the time. After it has warmed up for a half hour or so it is less likely to stall. It usually makes a screeching sound when engaging, but I first assumed that was normal belt slippage before the blades get up to speed. Now I'm not so sure.

After each time mowing I always clean the clumped up grass out of the deck under and on the top. I hose it down and get it as clean as possible. I took the deck off and the blades spin freely (easily with one finger). I don't see any problem with the belt. No chafing or binding. I also engaged the PTO without the deck and there is no binding. It engages freely with very little impact on engine RPM.

So why does the engine not seem to have the power to recover when the PTO is engaged? It seems to run smoothly and has adequate power to run the deck once engaged and travel at any speed. My property has many sloping areas and the tractor has no problem navigating any of it.

Could there be a compression problem with the engine? Could lateral tension on the PTO and/or deck pulleys by the belt cause binding? Could the full throttle RPMs be set to low? I notice that after hosing the deck down it engages much easier. Is there something with lubrication? I have greased all the points specified in the manual. And as I say when the deck is off the blades easily turn.

Lastly, will stalling the engine from full throttle damage it? I guess the only saving grace there is the 4 year warranty...

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Stewart

 

[sunnyside360]

I can only speak from my experience with the X485 tractor with 62D mower.
Not positive, but I believe this tractor is very similar -- X485 was a 25 hp liquid cooled Kawasaki efi engine. I always engaged the mower at just above slow idle RPM to minimize wear/torque on the clutch and it never stalled. If yours is a fairly new tractor and under warranty I'd get the dealer involved.

 

[VTtractorguy]

Thanks Sunnyside. Yes, I have called the dealer and they are supposed to be coming out next week. I described all the above to them and they seemed stumped. Hopefully between this forum and them it will get fixed.

Thanks.

 

[shot_gun]

I would check the idler and the mule(double pulley) pulley. The ne in the back. You can take the belt off around the deck pulley and just run the belt from the engine to the mower and see if you still have an issue. Then check the blades themselves to see if they are bent. Is there any vibration when you engage the deck? Make sure the deck belt is on the pulleys and the belt guides are in the corect position. If the pto engages better when the belt is wet then the belt is probably slipping providing a smoother engagement. Grab a hold of the mule pulley with out the belt that goes to the engine and see if you can rotate that by hand. If you can then mabey there is something wrong on the engine side. It's not running on one cyl. is it?

 

[VTtractorguy]

I would check the idler and the mule(double pulley) pulley. The ne in the back. You can take the belt off around the deck pulley and just run the belt from the engine to the mower and see if you still have an issue. Then check the blades themselves to see if they are bent. Is there any vibration when you engage the deck? Make sure the deck belt is on the pulleys and the belt guides are in the corect position. If the pto engages better when the belt is wet then the belt is probably slipping providing a smoother engagement. Grab a hold of the mule pulley with out the belt that goes to the engine and see if you can rotate that by hand. If you can then mabey there is something wrong on the engine side. It's not running on one cyl. is it?

Shot Gun... Thanks so much for the info. I am definitely an armature at this. I did try rotating the blades without the engine-to-deck belt on and they turn very easily. I did look at the blades and they don't seem bent.

As far as the engine running on one cylinder, I think it is running on both, but I'm not sure. When it was cold I fired it up for about ten seconds, shut it off then touched the exhaust coming out of each cylinder and both were hot. So I assume both are firing. If compression was low on one or both cylinders, would it still run smoothly but not have enough power to correctly start the deck?

Thanks again.

 

[dbdartman]

Shot Gun... Thanks so much for the info. I am definitely an armature at this. I did try rotating the blades without the engine-to-deck belt on and they turn very easily. I did look at the blades and they don't seem bent.

Shot_gun is talking about the idler pulleys, not the blade pulleys. Check all of them & make sure they're free also. If an idler is seized (or starting to), it CAN cause your problem.

 

[VTtractorguy]

Please forgive my ignorance, but I'm still not clear where the idler pulley is. Is it the double pulley mounted on the deck or is it on the tractor? Probably time for a mechanic to take a look. I did ask my dealer about this last week and he seemed half clueless. I'm reluctant to call another dealer as I will have to pay to haul it to them. My dealer is 4 miles down the road and it won稚 cost me anything.

 

[dbdartman]

You have a drive pulley, on the engine, that drives the belt. You have the blade pulleys, which are attached to the shafts that drive the blades. Idler pulleys don't drive anything, they guide the belt(s) around turns. There should be at least one that's on a spring-loaded lever & may be as many as 3 others. Typically, there are 2 or 3 idler pulleys.

 

[JDFANATIC]

First thing I would start with is a bunch of grease on all three spindles. See if that resolves anything.

 

[2Malamutes]

I can only speak from my experience with the X485 tractor with 62D mower.
Not positive, but I believe this tractor is very similar -- X485 was a 25 hp liquid cooled Kawasaki efi engine. I always engaged the mower at just above slow idle RPM to minimize wear/torque on the clutch and it never stalled. If yours is a fairly new tractor and under warranty I'd get the dealer involved.

A good practice on the 485, but not really applicable to the X540. 485 has a hydraulic clutch, while the 540 is an electric clutch. I learned from experience on my Mother's 540 to not engage near idle unless I wanted to stall.

 

[VTtractorguy]

A good practice on the 485, but not really applicable to the X540. 485 has a hydraulic clutch, while the 540 is an electric clutch. I learned from experience on my Mother's 540 to not engage near idle unless I wanted to stall.

But you could engage far off from full throttle without stalling? Unless I let my 540 warm up for 5 minutes and run it wide open, it will stall when engaging the PTO. Something is wrong. I'll play with it tomorrow.

 

[VTtractorguy]

First thing I would start with is a bunch of grease on all three spindles. See if that resolves anything.

Thanks JD, but I have greased everything and it didn't help. Tractor now has only 11.5 hours on the meter.

 

[shot_gun]

As far as the engine running on one cylinder, I think it is running on both, but I'm not sure. When it was cold I fired it up for about ten seconds, shut it off then touched the exhaust coming out of each cylinder and both were hot. So I assume both are firing.

An easy way to tell if it firing on both cyl. is to remove one spark plug wire at a time and listen to the engine die down. If you remove a wire and the engine dies down than that cyl. is firing. If you remove the wire and you get no change in rpm then that is the cyl. that is not firing. I've run a couple 540's at work and I don't really remember having a problem with with the pto. I think you can engage it around half throttle and rev it up from there. With 26 hp you shouldn't have any problem turning a 54" deck. I did a quick search on Deere's dealer web site and there has been no reported issues relating to your problem. I think your down a cyl. or an idler or something along those lines is begining to sieze.

 

[VTtractorguy]

An easy way to tell if it firing on both cyl. is to remove one spark plug wire at a time and listen to the engine die down. If you remove a wire and the engine dies down than that cyl. is firing. If you remove the wire and you get no change in rpm then that is the cyl. that is not firing. I've run a couple 540's at work and I don't really remember having a problem with with the pto. I think you can engage it around half throttle and rev it up from there. With 26 hp you shouldn't have any problem turning a 54" deck. I did a quick search on Deere's dealer web site and there has been no reported issues relating to your problem. I think your down a cyl. or an idler or something along those lines is begining to sieze.

So with 11.5 hrs and the engine being run this way (down a cyl. or a bad pulley) will there be any long term damage done?

 

[ChuckinNH]

Most engines have some kind of govenor that kicks in, and maintains rpm when the engine is under load, and it sure sounds like the one on your engine is not working if the mower belts, and pulleys are turning freely. I'm not too familiar with the new small engines, and I suppose that could be controlled by a computer chip, or electronicly now, but the net result is the same. Apply load without one, and the engine will stall.

 

[shot_gun]

So with 11.5 hrs and the engine being run this way (down a cyl. or a bad pulley) will there be any long term damage done?

With a non firing cyl. you can wash down that particular cyl with the unburnt fuel and possibly cause damage to that cyl over time. I'd give it a check this morning and find out if you are a cyl down. Then you'll know for sure. A ad pulley/idler will usually take out belts which if it does will be covered under warranty.

 

[2Malamutes]

But you could engage far off from full throttle without stalling? Unless I let my 540 warm up for 5 minutes and run it wide open, it will stall when engaging the PTO. Something is wrong. I'll play with it tomorrow.

No, both X540s I've used, a demo and my Mother's, had to be engaged at full throttle, and even then it is a very noticeable strain on the engine. This seemed odd to me given what I am used to with the 2320, but the dealer said it is normal and that they are two disparate systems.

When my Mother was looking at the 540 I told her to engage the PTO at idle, which promptly stopped the engine as if someone had clamped down the output shaft. I got on it and tried the same thing with the same result, engaging at low RPM stops it dead. I have also tried engaging it right after starting at full throttle and had it stall out, so I'm not convinced there is some complex issue here, but just a tecnically different system than is used by the bulk of the people replying.

 

[VTtractorguy]

Most engines have some kind of govenor that kicks in, and maintains rpm when the engine is under load, and it sure sounds like the one on your engine is not working if the mower belts, and pulleys are turning freely. I'm not too familiar with the new small engines, and I suppose that could be controlled by a computer chip, or electronicly now, but the net result is the same. Apply load without one, and the engine will stall.

Good thought... I'll try it this morning and see if I can hear the throttle opening up.

 

[VTtractorguy]

No, both X540s I've used, a demo and my Mother's, had to be engaged at full throttle, and even then it is a very noticeable strain on the engine. This seemed odd to me given what I am used to with the 2320, but the dealer said it is normal and that they are two disparate systems.

Wow, if that's the way they are, I can't imagine it will help for a private resale. If I was looking for a used machine, seeing that would kill the deal for me. Guess I'll be trading it in. Still though... something seems wrong with my machine. It actually didn't do this for the first 8 hours. It strained, but didn't stall. The stalling started right after I changed the oil. I used JD oil (10w30 I think). But that shouldn't have any effect. Maybe going to Mobil 1 synthetic will help.

 

[2Malamutes]

It actually didn't do this for the first 8 hours. It strained, but didn't stall. The stalling started right after I changed the oil. I used JD oil (10w30 I think). But that shouldn稚' have any effect. Maybe going to Mobil 1 synthetic will help.

After reading through your OP again, I agree it shouldn't be stalling at full throttle if it is warm, but at anything less than full throttle warm I am not surprised given my experience with 2 540s. I was initially surprised at how violent the engagement of the deck is on the 540. Grease all of your pulleys (the Zerks) and change to a 5W30 synthetic.