Yanny vs. Kubota

   / Yanny vs. Kubota #1  

msjanket

Silver Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2006
Messages
222
I've heard people say nothing is better than the Kubota tractors. If so, how do the Yanny tractors stand up, model for model? Engines comparable or is the Kubota engine better?

I'm lookin' at a Yanny now, seem to have better value than the very expensive Kubotas.

thanks
 
   / Yanny vs. Kubota #2  
I was looking at all of the compact tractors available and I could have bought most a lot newer (20 years or so) than the Yanmar I did buy for about the same money. I am still glad I chose what I did for the sheer simplicity if nothing else.

I read sometimes on the Kubota forum here and some of the problems those folks deal with seem pretty ridiculous to me but thats my opinion.
 
   / Yanny vs. Kubota #3  
Heres the deal. You cant compare a 30 year old yanmar to a new or even 10 yr old kubota. Its like comparing a 1980 GM truck to a 2005 ford truck. I dont care what you think about brands etc in trucks. A 2005 ford 1/2 ton will out pull haul dragrace whatever a 1980 GM. Now if you take both gm and ford from 1980 there both good trucks and solid in their day. The same is true of the yanmars. Their a good hardworking dependable truck. Kubotas are just sold new here still so there is more availible, BUT not of the grey market ones like most of us have. Kubota won a lawsuit in the ??? 1990's?? (a search will find it here) where no grey market (or tractors not intended for the US market ) to be imported here. That means there are far fewer kubotas around that are greys as they cant bring them in by the container load anymore.

Yanmar left the US market i beleive by a deal with JD when they started actually making their whole tractors in the sCUT line as well as engines for more tractors still to this day.

That said yanmar is a solid tractor and so is a KUbota. A yanmar 2000 and a kubota 2000 are prolly gonna do the same thing and be just as reliable. Keep in mind both these are grey models and even though there is a kuboo dealer in your town they WILL NOT sell you parts if you tell them its a 2000, you would have to tell them the us model if there is one. But those parts will cost more than the ones that we can get through the yanmar aftermarket like Hoye, LMTC, Fredrics, Ernie etc. If i need to i can get some parts at JD and probably in stock as yanmar made some of the 80s model JD tractors. I will try everything possible NOT to as if they know its not a deere they wont sell it to you in most cases?? and the part is liable to be 2-3x the price.

You can search here for problems of the yanmars, most things our guys can fix with the help here, the big stuff like blown engine or busted tranny (cant say i have read about a tranny) they will part it but most things are minor, orings in 3pt, the valve, hydro pump, few injector pumps that seems like the person always messes with, starters alternators voltage regulators, etc. There is a current thread on a 336d with busted up axles and a basic mess. I think the previous owner to the guy trying to fix it must have rolled it off a hill or maybe rolled over his trailer while towing. That is about the worse damage i ahve seen here in almost 2 years, and it was a US model.
 
   / Yanny vs. Kubota #4  
It comes down to the model and how it was treated by the previous owner. And all new tractors are not perfect, every brand has had a Lemon before, it's part of the game. My Yanmar 169D is pretty basic, it is 6 speed forward and 2 reverse. It has a 16 hp engine and the 3 point hitch is just the valve so there is no position control. So I have hopefully defined basic, some Yanmars have position control, power shift, quick turn, and a few tiller properties that are really neat. Quick turn on the FX tractors basically makes it a front wheel drive tractor so you gain tighter steering and it turns faster. Position control is available on both, but you can more precisely use your 3 point hitch for ground engaging work and mowing applications. Yanmar also had hydraulic tilt as standard equipment on some of their FX tractors and had a UFO system for their tillers that basically was electronic control that keeps the tiller level and preforming at its best at all times. Domestic models aren't as fancy and actually aren't typically in better shape than grey market tractors. The average farm in Japan is about 1 acre, they take good care of their tractors because they are expensive there and are a valuable asset in their operation. Kubota also is a great brand, I have driven several and the only I didn't really like to much was the BX because of how fragile the underside is. The B series however is very nice units, this also includes the older B5000 and up to today's B2320-B3300 SU. I think it comes down to a preference, i got a Yanmar because it was affordable and it has proven to be a great tractor. If I would have seen a Kubota at the same price i would have likely got that. They both have features that the other lacks but are great tractors.
 
   / Yanny vs. Kubota
  • Thread Starter
#5  
That said, and I thank you all, has the speed shift worked out on the YM186D? Where you don't have to clutch within a speed range, that is. I'm getting a look at an 186 tomorrow, anything particularly noteworthy that I should look at?

I got a look at a Satoh Beaver III today. Seemed grossly overpriced and had way too much exhaust smoke for just 1000 hours. Cute little bugger, though


thanks, all.
 
   / Yanny vs. Kubota #6  
That said, and I thank you all, has the speed shift worked out on the YM186D? Where you don't have to clutch within a speed range, that is. I'm getting a look at an 186 tomorrow, anything particularly noteworthy that I should look at?

I got a look at a Satoh Beaver III today. Seemed grossly overpriced and had way too much exhaust smoke for just 1000 hours. Cute little bugger, though


thanks, all.

He has a 169d? I think the 186 is powershift though, everyone likes it that has it. But i think JD's tractor is just a geared one, maybe im wrong?

The beaver is a reverse rotating PTO right? Did the have the reverser kit installed on it? Otherwise if it dont come with its own bushhog good luck fining one! Also i think the parts for the Satohs are scarce?
 
   / Yanny vs. Kubota #7  
Forget the Satoh unless it is throwaway cheap. You'll never find parts anywhere. Or at least get parts lined up before purchase.

I Have a YM186D. The sheet metal shows it was thoroughly thrashed by what must have been a succession of neglectful owners. It runs like new, and on a dyno tested greater horsepower output than its 'new' spec.

Photo

I just rebuilt its steering which had rusted internally (parked outdoors). The parts were on the shelf at Hoye's so this was not a problem - the *same* parts (steering bearings) that are used in Kubota and 1970's Datsun, and have long been unavailable through those channels. How's that for support!

I've read that the Powershift is indestructible but on here I've read of people who had to flush blockage out of its hydraulic plumbing before it would shift properly. This isn't broken parts, it just reflects owner neglect. Change the fluids and filters on schedule and this will never occur. My Powershift works fine despite the exterior appearance of the tractor. And I consider Powershift a huge advantage over a manual transmission. (I own both types; the YM240 is conventional).

If you can buy a YM186D at a reasonable price - I would do it. Around here (Northern California) prices run from $3500 (no loader) to over $7k (clean, w/loader, obviously well maintained). Hopefully cheaper where you are. I think this is one of the best models Yanmar or anybody ever made in a small tractor. Mine is nearly a full replacement for the larger YM240; about the only limitation is the big loader or backhoe on my YM240 would tip the little guy over.
 
   / Yanny vs. Kubota #8  
The later Beavers have a standard rotation PTO, though some earlier versions have a counterclockwise output. I have a Satoh 1440, very similar to the Beaver, as well as a 186D. I know you have largely dismissed the Beaver. From what you've said the seller is asking, compared to its condition, I think you're making a good decision.

The 186D is a good tractor, and I like mine. It is built very solidly. The Powershift is what makes the tractor, in my view. A hydrostatic transmission may offer more adjustment within each range than the Powershift, but the Powershift is a couple steps ahead of a straight gear-only transmission. I have said elsewhere that without the Powershift, my 186D would be useless. That's obviously not completely true, but it isn't a terrible exaggeration.

The 186D has a very powerful 3 point hitch and hydraulic system and will lift and handle implements a couple sizes larger than what its power will let it run. Mine rockets a heavy-duty 4 foot brush mower up and down, and would probably take a 6 foot machine fine too. There is no way it would run the cutter, though. My 4 footer will commonly bog it down, even just cutting weeds and grass in my orchard.

I think the 186D is underpowered for its weight and commonly used applications. It is rated only 1 hp higher than my Satoh 1440, but weighs significantly more. Mine, with all its ballast and additional weight, will almost certainly check in at twice the weight of the smaller Satoh. What that means, in my applications, is that there is significant disparity in what the tractors will do in terms of ground-engaging, but not really any difference in terms of mowing, running a tiller, or something dependent upon PTO horsepower.

The 186D will stall before it spins in most conditions except unusual attitudes or very soft soils. The Satoh (or my comparable Yanmar 1401D) will virtually never stall, and will excavate holes with the tires until it rests on the belly pan.

The 186D, given its beefiness and extra weight, would be much better with a loader than my 1401D is, and pulls a disk, plow, or box blade extremely well. The Powershift transmission is a real productivity booster for back and forth work or where you need to adjust speeds (Frequently while mowing, since it's kind of underpowered for what it will otherwise handle). For snowblowing, tilling, general gardening work, mowing, or other general purpose work the lighter tractors don't really give up much.

As far as things to check, the generic things apply: Overall condition, owner knowledge/maintenance history, and the like are a given. Specific to the machine, everybody who has one says the 186Ds have a strong and fast hydraulic lift. Whatever implement the owner has on back should move up with authority. If it doesn't, then the front should be lifting instead. Seriously. One end or the other will be coming up. Everyone also comments that it tends to lower the three point hitch rapidly, too. As in, be nowhere near it when attempting to inch it down, because it's going to drop like a rock.

The Powershift has, because of its design, a slight lag when engaging from neutral into a drive gear. It is similar to having an automatic automobile in park, with the engine idling slowly, then dropping it into gear. There is a perceptible lag, not an instant engagement. Once moving with the engine at rated RPM, shifts are nearly instantaneous, and feel like a musclecar with a shift kit in the transmission. Upshifts are certainly firm, and some might characterize them as harsh, especially if heavily loaded.

My 186D has a somewhat peaky powerband. I think it's normal, based on others' comments. It feels very weak until high RPM, where the engine is strong, but if lugged any, power quickly falls off. This is why the Powershift is so useful, since one can instantly downshift to maintain engine RPM.

Otherwise, I don't know of any real "gotcha" traits peculiar to the 186 models. Just be aware of the quirks particular to the machine, and see if it appears to be a good unit.

As Clemson said, generally this vintage Yanmar is at the pinnacle, along with Kubota, of the extremely high-quality but simple Japanese machinery. These, like the FJ40 and similar Landcruisers and Hilux pickups are easy to work on and maintain, and require minimal attention even in the roughest of environments. All of these things are around 25 years old or more, many are 30 years old. They still work great, especially after some deferred maintenance issues are resolved.

Generally, any problems that arise are due to abuse, owner neglect, or similar things. Running a mower behind a tractor without a properly fitted air filter is going to shorten the engine life dramatically, whether it is a 2011 Kubota/John Deere or a 1917 Fordson F. Having said that, most owners of new equipment admit they doubt their recent purchase will be running in 30 years of sitting out under the trees in the weather.

As a guideline, avoid a tractor that looks (Or is described as) factory new, with shiny, fresh paint, clean decals, and the like. They are often rebuilds of dubious quality imported from Vietnam. Some of them (Like my 1401D and some other users' machines here) are superb, and are no trouble at all. Others have nightmarish tales (documented) of engines or front axles from entirely different models, sometimes having different numbers of cylinders or incorrectly matched gear ratios. Again, these are 20 to 30 year old pieces of equipment, so should look like it, but that doesn't mean neglected or abused.
 
   / Yanny vs. Kubota #9  
I have the 187d...just a slightly longer version of the 186. I have been very pleased with it so far. Todate, all the repairs needed (which have been few) were done by me with help from the guys on this board. (great group with alot of info to share). Parts have been easy to get as needed. Like any other 20 plus year old machinery there is some concern of lack of parts down the road. Can not comment on the Kubota, but I looked at the Satohs as well and decided on the Yanmar because I felt there would be better access to parts and help. (note I typed felt- no expert just my observation when I was looking for my first cut).

Good luck on your search!
 
   / Yanny vs. Kubota #10  
Forget the Satoh unless it is throwaway cheap. You'll never find parts anywhere. Or at least get parts lined up before purchase..

Oh the blasphemy! :D California, you're one of the best guys on TBN but this is why the "Mitsubishi guy" i.e. me, has to troll the Yanmar forum......well, OK there's only about a tenth of the traffic in the Mitsubishi forum so I have to troll somewhere. Satohs are super dependable and almost all but the early oddball and maybe largest models are well supported machines. They made a BUNCH of those and the variations of that thing under the Satoh and Mitsubishi brands and the Beaver III was even the U.S. model. Parts are as abundant as about any of the old Japanese compacts. Nothing will ever match Yanmars support but I would never pass on a Beaver because of worry for parts( at least at this point in time). and as far as technical knowledge, as long as people like Bill Rodgers and Len Sheaffer are around they will have dealers that can help owners with any conceivable issue anyone would ever have.
 

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