Yes, another pond started.....

meadowlarkponds · Oct 7, 2008

Well, I'm not a fan of culverts for handling flood waters in a pond (nor pipes in the dam for that matter). I base that on some of the floods I have seen in my area in which, no culvert that I have ever seen could handle the volume of water generated in these "100 year" floods which happen a couple of times a year around here.

Depends on the amount of acreage that drains into the pond basin, the amount and time frame for the rains, etc., but for me I wouldn't trust nor spend the money on the culvert. I much prefer natural spillways where possible which can handle tremendous volumes of water.

Your area is certainly different so my comments may not be applicable.

MotorSeven · Oct 8, 2008

Meadow, you may be right. My area in east TN has a series of ridges 200-1000' tall running east-west. Ridge top to ridge top in some places(mine) are about a mile apart. The ridges are wooded but rocky, so in a steady hard rain that lasts for more than a day or so, the creeks at the bottom of these ridges swells rapidly & overflow their banks. My creek is 35' wide with 7' banks. The water then sheets out over the bottom land pastures that average 100yds wide from of ridge to bottom of ridge. These geographical conditions make for some very powerfull water. We have watched full sized trees roll down the pasture during flood conditions.
Anyway, i figure my options are: to put a levee around the pond, tall enough to prevent most floods from getting into it(kinda like New Orleans). I wanted the in-feed culvert because the pond lays in a natural low spot & i this would take advantage of normal amounts of rainfall. Closing off the culvert before a flood is an option(running out there in the middle of the night to do that may not be). However, since i am planning on a solar panel(s), a pump & float switch to pull water from the creek, i could delete the drainage catch & just levee the pond in isolating it from everything. From an aquaculture point of view i would guess that isolation is the way to go. Either way, the dyke/levee will have to be pretty stout on the flood side & angled to deflect oncomming water.
While i have been blah blah blahing, it has been raining, & my unfinished pond will get a partial "clay bottom water holding capacity test".......

RD

Oh, here is the topo, location of pond in red....gives a visual of the ridges/bottom lands.

EddieWalker · Oct 8, 2008

From the topo map, it looks king of like a glacier path at one time. Maybe a small one.

The thing that I wonder about is if anything you do will be able to handle those worse case situations? The dam in front has some merrit to it if it's big enough, but then catching enough water to keep the pond full becomes an issue. The culvert idea has me wondering if that's feasable.

Does that creek run year round? How far down would you have to dig the pond to be able to get water from the creek if you installed pipe from the creek to the pond? A one inch pipe, running 24/7 would give you plenty of water, but a 2 inch pipe would give you something like five times as much water, maybe more.

Are you going to stock the pond for fishing? Another option might be to just stock it and expect to have to do so again if and when it floods. The fish are not really that expensive, you just have to wait a year or so for them to get big enough to be worth catching. We were catching one pound channel cats in our small pond in about six months, but we also fed them every day.

I'm with Meadolwark on the culverts. They are never big enough for getting rid of the water in extreme weather.

Eddie

RobJ · Oct 8, 2008

meadowlarkponds said:
Well, I'm not a fan of culverts for handling flood waters in a pond (nor pipes in the dam for that matter). I base that on some of the floods I have seen in my area in which, no culvert that I have ever seen could handle the volume of water generated in these "100 year" floods which happen a couple of times a year around here.

Depends on the amount of acreage that drains into the pond basin, the amount and time frame for the rains, etc., but for me I wouldn't trust nor spend the money on the culvert. I much prefer natural spillways where possible which can handle tremendous volumes of water.

Your area is certainly different so my comments may not be applicable.

As far as culverts, I think you have to work with what you have. In my picture above, Edwin put in a side spillway to the right, The water will run down the hill/pasture and eventually find the creekbed again. But on the ponds he has at his house, in a nice hill catch basin, there were county roads to contend with. On the lower pond he has 5 24" culverts that spill into a concrete trench since they follow right behind the dam. His upper pond (on the same hill), is about 5-6 higher in water level, and has a single pipe I believe. there is a road over the dam so I don 't remember a spillway. But he has a manual valve that will drain water into the lower pond.

The 5 24" pipes have handled everything fine so far. They work fine, but most people probably under estimate the size and number needed. These guys up here will always tend to overbuild if anything.

MotorSeven · Oct 8, 2008

To clarify, the culvert would be on the leading edge of the levee & only be open during normal rainfall & closed to keep all water out during flood stages.

The creek flows year round, but it is another 2-4' deeper than the current pond bottom. Eddie, your idea for a direct feed pipe would only work if i don't hit bed rock that is higher than the creek for digging the pond deeper and trenching the pipe. It may be worth a try especially since my neighbor has a TLB that i can borrow for free. As you can see in the topo of the pasture, it is pretty flat give or take some natural low spots.

RD

EddieWalker · Oct 8, 2008

The pictures helps clarify your design, but it brings up another concern. How much rainfal do you get? how much watershed will you get? and most importantly, how much loss to evaporation will you have to deal with?

Both my ponds are filled 100% from runoff when it rains. I have moved thousands of yards of dirt to either create low areas to bring more water to my ponds, or built up road to divert water to my ponds. On a good hard, one inch rain, I can increase the water level in my big pond 3 inches. When I'm done with all my plans for diverting water to that pond, I expect that number to double. My small pond went from 2 inches when I first started doing this, to 6 inches.

Are you going to be able to catch all the rain water that comes down the valley to fill our pond and keep it full?

The deeper the pond, the more you can lose to evaporation. I lose close to a foot a month in the summer. Three months without rain, and it's looking pretty bad. Fortunately, I have 8 to 12 feet of depth, so the fish will be fine if I lose 4 to 6 feet of water. Any more and it's panic time!!!!

Just some things to think about,
Eddie

woodlandfarms · Oct 8, 2008

That wide angle lense makes your dozer look like a toy in your first photo...

MotorSeven · Oct 9, 2008

Ha, it is a toy, a Case 350B....only 8,000lbs..........

No, rainfall alone will not fill this pond(we got about an inch yesterday, nothing in the pond but mud), it would only be a seasonal thing with the rain and that is only in the spring. We get an average of 48"'s a year, but are way down for the last 2 years. I think i will just leave the culvert out of the design, & build the levee up high enough to keep out most floods. I don't think an in-feed pipe from the creek to pond will work without a pump because the pond will be higher than the creek.
So, since i want to be on boad with energy savings, i think i will stick to a couple of solar panels, a DC pump, and a float switch. I know that set up will not be cheap, but once in, it should last a long time. USDA here may help with some $ since it will double as a stock tank, but i am not so sure i want to be tied to them for the 5 year term they require. They will help me with the permit(EPA it think) required to draw water from the creek.

RD

BTW, i got the track cleaned off & Meadow you were right, it is the RH tensioner, more specifically the tensioner housing that has a spring inside. The housing had rusted away allowing the tensioner to buckle which pushed the idler wheel sideways. The LH tensioner also needs some attention, but is not as bad. I called Case for a price on a new spring & housing........$700+ for one side...yikes! I might be able to save it, but the spring is broken, so i'll have to ponder it some. On a good note i only broke off 3 out of 4 bolts holding the housing on.........

LH side

RH side

Housing off:

dirtworksequip · Oct 9, 2008

I think you would be better off to build a levee around the entire pond and just pump water on an as needed basis. If you set it up with an inlet culvert you will not only be adding water but also silt with run off rain water. I'd pump water to the pond to eliminate any silt. The bigger you make your pond the more material you will have for a higher and more substantial levee.

Just my thoughts.

Sinserely, Dirt