Yesterday. Would you buy and EV?

[jwmorris]

I have followed EV threads out of curiosity

post #169 of this thread

Electric Polaris Ranger

Congrats on the new order! I'm curious where you found the information on the starting price for the new Ranger? I've been impatiently awaiting the release this December. Also interested if they will make the crew version, which I assume they will just by default? For those that don't...

www.tractorbynet.com

Is not a great motivator for me.

I couldn't find what I paid for the total kit back in 2017, just the 160Ah batteries were $3,200. The hour meter is showing 350.7 now:

Move up to larger equipment and the prices go up too. $23k for a 3 year old used battery seems steep to me.

 

[Boss 302]

It's all new and that makes us skeptical I believe as technology continues to improve that most of us will be saying "I would'nt own another ICE".

 

[MossRoad]

I have followed EV threads out of curiosity

post #169 of this thread

Electric Polaris Ranger

Congrats on the new order! I'm curious where you found the information on the starting price for the new Ranger? I've been impatiently awaiting the release this December. Also interested if they will make the crew version, which I assume they will just by default? For those that don't...

www.tractorbynet.com

Is not a great motivator for me.




Move up to larger equipment and the prices go up too. $23k for a 3 year old used battery seems steep to me.

View attachment 781797

Used engine for any car in the inventory at local junkyard....

$594.99

Until used prices come down, I can't see purchasing one for ourselves. I can keep our vehicle running well for pennies on the dollar compared to EVs currently. Hopefully, that will change down the road, but I can't see used batteries coming down to the price of used engines ever.

 

[nickfank]

Used engine for any car in the inventory at local junkyard....

$594.99

Until used prices come down, I can't see purchasing one for ourselves. I can keep our vehicle running well for pennies on the dollar compared to EVs currently. Hopefully, that will change down the road, but I can't see used batteries coming down to the price of used engines ever.

Equating a used battery pack to a used engine is one of the reasons the math isn't working out for many people.

When you buy a battery pack, you're buying a component that, compared to ICEs, cuts the cost of your fuel by about 60% during its lifetime while providing better performance. (The actual "engine" is an electric motor, and so far, those are lasting a very long time.)

A more equivalent comparison to the eBay listing would be if someone offered you a 500 HP engine that provides a guaranteed 90MPG with no maintenance costs for the next 100K miles. What would that engine be worth? (It's still not a perfect comparison, but closer.)

EV drivetrains are so different that comparing components doesn't really work. Instead, compare overall results: How much does it cost to provide safe convenient transportation for a distance of 100K miles? When you ask that question, I think you'll find that EVs are beginning to edge out ICEs.

 

[MossRoad]

Equating a used battery pack to a used engine is one of the reasons the math isn't working out for many people.

When you buy a battery pack, you're buying a component that, compared to ICEs, cuts the cost of your fuel by about 60% during its lifetime while providing better performance. (The actual "engine" is an electric motor, and so far, those are lasting a very long time.)

A more equivalent comparison to the eBay listing would be if someone offered you a 500 HP engine that provides a guaranteed 90MPG with no maintenance costs for the next 100K miles. What would that engine be worth? (It's still not a perfect comparison, but closer.)

EV drivetrains are so different that comparing components doesn't really work. Instead, compare overall results: How much does it cost to provide safe convenient transportation for a distance of 100K miles? When you ask that question, I think you'll find that EVs are beginning to edge out ICEs.

I'm just showing that my wallet rules.
I can buy an $8000 vehicle, re-engine it for $1000, and drive it for 10 more years.
I can't yet do that with an EV.
So I have to wait until a supply of used EVs builds up.
And then I have to wonder how expensive it will be to re-power an EV if it comes to that.
I run about 12K miles per year. I'll never save enough in gas VS electric to make a re-power break even at this point in time.
Maybe things will change in the future. I'd hope so.
Today, it's a no go for me.

 

[wawajake]

I'm guessing Bull Guy is doing something like looking at the fees for a fast charger using a credit card in Hawaii (where electricity is 40 cents/kWh) and then comparing that to average gas prices.

Math doesn't lie, but garbage in/garbage out still applies.

What puzzles me is that everyone who doesn't actually operate an EV is hung up on this notion of charging stations being the bottleneck. Why would I use a charging station when I can just plug in every night and fill the tank while I sleep?

Maybe we get hung up on it, because many of us travel overnight away from home further than the " true" distances these toaster cars are capable of. So we would need quick ( ten minute) charging to continue on our travels and that infrastructure is not feasible continent wide......except if all us citizens allow our taxes to pay for it and we subsidize those that chose to drive these battery cars now. Meanwhile the global warming by the sun continues as it has since the last ice age, and mankind thinking they can move that needle without bringing first world countries economies to their knees , while we ignore other countries in Asia etc take over our economic jobs etc. Yep I am hung up on it all ....

 

[ovrszd]

I'm just showing that my wallet rules.
I can buy an $8000 vehicle, re-engine it for $1000, and drive it for 10 more years.
I can't yet do that with an EV.
So I have to wait until a supply of used EVs builds up.
And then I have to wonder how expensive it will be to re-power an EV if it comes to that.
I run about 12K miles per year. I'll never save enough in gas VS electric to make a re-power break even at this point in time.
Maybe things will change in the future. I'd hope so.
Today, it's a no go for me.

X 2.

 

[ovrszd]

Maybe we get hung up on it, because many of us travel overnight away from home further than the " true" distances these toaster cars are capable of. So we would need quick ( ten minute) charging to continue on our travels and that infrastructure is not feasible continent wide......except if all us citizens allow our taxes to pay for it and we subsidize those that chose to drive these battery cars now. Meanwhile the global warming by the sun continues as it has since the last ice age, and mankind thinking they can move that needle without bringing first world countries economies to their knees , while we ignore other countries in Asia etc take over our economic jobs etc. Yep I am hung up on it all ....

Yep, that's what's expected.....

 

[tradosaurus]

Maybe we get hung up on it, because many of us travel overnight away from home further than the " true" distances these toaster cars are capable of. So we would need quick ( ten minute) charging to continue on our travels and that infrastructure is not feasible continent wide......except if all us citizens allow our taxes to pay for it and we subsidize those that chose to drive these battery cars now. Meanwhile the global warming by the sun continues as it has since the last ice age, and mankind thinking they can move that needle without bringing first world countries economies to their knees , while we ignore other countries in Asia etc take over our economic jobs etc. Yep I am hung up on it all ....

Strawman argument. Use ICE vehicle to travel long distances.
I don't think our taxes should pay for EV charging infrastructure either. Have states or cities decide if they want to fund these with local taxes.
The global warming science is absolutely false and borders on a cult religion. Gloom and doom climate shamans have been predicting the end of the world since the 70's with bad results.
Personally I bought my EV for convenience of charging at home and to spread my fuel dependencies across three areas, gas, diesel, and electric.

 

[ovrszd]

Strawman argument. Use ICE vehicle to travel long distances.
I don't think our taxes should pay for EV charging infrastructure either. Have states or cities decide if they want to fund these with local taxes.
The global warming science is absolutely false and borders on a cult religion. Gloom and doom climate shamans have been predicting the end of the world since the 70's with bad results.
Personally I bought my EV for convenience of charging at home and to spread my fuel dependencies across three areas, gas, diesel, and electric.

There ya go, applying logic....