Yet Another 1st Time Tractor Buyer

   / Yet Another 1st Time Tractor Buyer #1  

duh09

New member
Joined
Jul 7, 2020
Messages
2
Tractor
John Deere 2650
Hey folks!

I've been trying to do my research but the sheer amount of different opinions and information out there is overwhelming.

I grew up on 26 acres in southern middle TN and after my father's passing last year, maintaining everything has fallen on my shoulders. Most of my life we used an older International 574 to keep everything bush hogged, move round bales, etc that my dad had purchased back in the 70's. The tractor had gotten to needing a little more work than it was worth and with my dad's failing health at the time, he decided to sell it and purchase a 2WD John Deere 2650 cab tractor so that he could at least bush hog in A/C. That tractor has proven to be a bit less than ideal for our use. The tractor is a bit top heavy feeling, and I've had more than enough butt puckering moments trying to mow the side of our hill. We've set the tires out, played with ballast, and it is still less than confidence inspiring in use.

So all that being said, we are looking to get rid of this tractor and move on to something else but we are not sure which direction to go. I've got a 10' pull behind bush hog that this tractor will need to be able to pull and I've been spoilt with the front end loader so that's a must have.

I've considered trying to find something along the lines of the old 574, maybe a 674 or 685, in good shape. I know that tractor can handle our equipment and work decently well enough to do what we need to do. The upside would be lower initial cost and a little bit of familiarity. The downside would be finding a tractor of that age in good shape first off, and what the remaining life expectancy could be.

The other side of the spectrum is finding a relatively low hour 5065E or 5075E. Newer equipment does scare me a bit, I am worried that the newer tractors are just not built for long term durability like the old iron. Upside would be the idea of hopefully not needing any major repairs for a few years at least. Downside would be cost of course, but possible the newer complicated electronics, emissions, etc.

I am 100% open to any and all suggestions and advice. I am not stuck on any particular model. Wishlist would be something 4wd but not a 100% must have, but I do think it'd make life easier. Not looking to spend more than $25-30k absolutely tops. I do not want a cab, just more stuff to tear up in the long run.

Thanks!
 
   / Yet Another 1st Time Tractor Buyer #2  
For comparison, the International 574 he's referring to was 52 HP @ PTO, and weighed about 2 1/2 tons.
 
   / Yet Another 1st Time Tractor Buyer #3  
Current tractors above 25 horsepower have to meet EPA tier 4 emission requirements. This means a computer, diesel particulate filter, etc. In order to escape all that on a fifty plus horsepower tractor try to find something 2008 or older. That's not really old for a tractor and you'll probably find they bring a premium price unless you get lucky.
 
   / Yet Another 1st Time Tractor Buyer
  • Thread Starter
#4  
Current tractors above 25 horsepower have to meet EPA tier 4 emission requirements. This means a computer, diesel particulate filter, etc. In order to escape all that on a fifty plus horsepower tractor try to find something 2008 or older. That's not really old for a tractor and you'll probably find they bring a premium price unless you get lucky.

Good to know, I figured there was something like that but wasn't sure on the years when that became required. That does explain the premium I've noticed on those year ranges in comparison to stuff in the last 10 years; same reasons I ended up in a 12V Cummins over the newer offerings.
 
   / Yet Another 1st Time Tractor Buyer #5  
You aren't the only one with a preference for the older US farm tractors. Others also think the golden years were mid 60s to maybe 2000.
I subscribe to a business magazine and they did quite an article about new versus old tractors back in March of this year. They pointed out that new ones are too complex for farmers to work on themselves, and there are a growing number of shops in the midwest and west that make a living doing complete remanufacture of older tractors. This is not hobby oriented, they are selling to farmers & rural land owners who want usable tractors. Favored tractors to remanufacture are the John Deeres in the 20xx, 30xx and 40xx series from the 60s and 70s. Big favorites are the 4010 and 4020. There are customers who a simpler and durable tractor that will last a lifetime. Like your old International. A rebuilt 4020 is hard to beat for that.

The old tractor movement is called, "Right to Repair" and one of the champions is a guy named Kevin Kenny. Maybe you can find more info online. You may be a long ways from being alone in what you are looking for. I've got two older JDs myself. One with 6000 hrs and one with much more. They work fine. You want to stay pre-2008.

I wouldn't be surprised if those "Right to Repair" guys all know each other. IThey have booths at the Husker Harvest Days in Nebraska....probably other states have similar events. Lots of good old machines out here in the West where machinery doesn't rust, it just seasons..
rScotty
 
   / Yet Another 1st Time Tractor Buyer #6  
About fifteen years ago there was a similar movement among local municipalities to “ restore” the popular and ubiquitous Chevy Caprice squad cars of the era. They were roomy, good performing vehicles, well suited to the intended use, and the municipal shops were familiar with repair patterns, and well stocked with spare parts and well trained mechanics.

The idea was to replace the powertrain , suspension, and refurbish the rest, at what appeared to be considerable cost savings to the taxpayer. Several vendors popped up around the country.

The programs were, in the end, unmitigated disasters. Officers refused to drive what they considered unreliable and dangerous piles of excrement. Failed door latches, hinges, broken and fatigued seats, Fluid leaks, and electrical failures all contributed to the demise of these programs all across the country.

I think the same thing will happen with the fad of rebuilding old tractors. There is no way to assure a particular rebuild or refurbishing of an old piece of equipment will be successful, no matter what the nostalgia we all have for the past says. A small time rebuilder relies on craftsmanship alone, with no systems in place to really insure quality from a scientific and statistical standpoint.

It’s just rebuilt obsolete junk, in the end.
 
   / Yet Another 1st Time Tractor Buyer #7  
SNIP...
There is no way to assure a particular rebuild or refurbishing of an old piece of equipment will be successful, no matter what the nostalgia we all have for the past says. A small time rebuilder relies on craftsmanship alone, with no systems in place to really insure quality from a scientific and statistical standpoint.

It’s just rebuilt obsolete junk, in the end.

Your opinion is so far out that it's hard to know where to start. Have you ever rebuilt old iron? Do you know from experience? I ask not in order to argue but because the comparisons you make don't make sense to a mechanic.

For one thing, you cannot compare tractors and cars. They aren't even roughly similar. Tractors don't have frames to age, or doors, or hinges, and the seats are replaceable with 4 bolts for less than the cost of upholstering. Bodywork is heavy steel. Hydraulics and electrics are easily serviced. Much of a tractor is heavy cast parts turning slowly. It doesn't age much at all, and can be rebuilt indefinitely by renewing the bearing components.

But the important thing is that it works like it does because the older tractors were deliberately designed to last indefinitely and be rebuilt as needed. That was THE sales point back when they were built. Design like that added hugely to their cost, and turned out not to be needed - mostly because society changed to a wealthier more consumption oriented population.
But those tractors are still sitting there, and the option to refurbish them like new still exists.

It isn't nostalgia, it's just good mechanical sense.
rScotty
 
Last edited:
   / Yet Another 1st Time Tractor Buyer #8  
John Deere 2650
1987 - 1994
Utility tractor
Series: 2450 ← 2650 → 2850
Production
Manufacturer: John Deere
Type: Utility tractor
Factory: Mannheim, Baden-Württemberg, Germany

John Deere 2650 Power
Engine Detail
John Deere
turbocharged diesel
4-cylinder
liquid-cooled
Displacement: 239.2 ci
3.9 L
Bore/Stroke: 4.19x4.33 inches
106 x 110 mm
Power: 78 hp
58.2 kW
Fuel tank: 22.2 gal
84.0 L
35.9 gal
135.9 L *
Engine details ...
Mechanical
Chassis: 4x2 2WD
4x4 MFWD 4WD
Final drives: planetary
Steering: power
Brakes: wet disc
Cab: ROPS. Sound-Gard and CC2 cab optional.
Transmission: 16-speed two-speed power shift
Hydraulics
Type: closed-center constant pressure
Pressure: 2756 psi
190.0 bar
Pump flow: 11.6 gpm
43.9 lpm
Tractor hitch
Rear Type: II
Control: position and draft control
Rear lift (at 24"/610mm): 4134 lbs
1875 kg
Front Hitch: II
Front lift: 1742 lbs
790 kg
Power Take-off (PTO)
Rear PTO: independent
Clutch: hydraulic wet disc
Rear RPM: 540/1000
Engine RPM: 540@2070
1000@2172
Front PTO: independent
Clutch: hydraulic wet disc
Front RPM: 1000
Engine RPM: 1000@2172

Dimensions
2WD Wheelbase: 89.2 inches
226 cm
4WD Wheelbase: 90 inches
228 cm
Length: 165.1 inches
419 cm
Width: 80.8 inches
205 cm
Height (cab): 104.8 inches
266 cm
2WD Shiping weight: 7694 lbs
3489 kg
4WD Shiping weight: 8378 lbs
3800 kg
2WD Clearance (front axle): 25.8 inches
65 cm
4WD Clearance (front axle): 19.5 inches
49 cm
2WD
135 to 200 cm 2WD} 59.1 to 79.1 inches {4WD}
150 to 200 cm {4WD} Front tread: 53.5 to 79.1 inches
Rear tread: 59.1 to 78.7 inches
150 to 199 cm

Electrical
Ground: negative
Charging amps: 44
Batteries: 2
Battery volts: 12
Battery AH: 55
Page information
Last update: March 6, 2020
Copyright: Copyright 2020 TractorData LLC
Contact: Peter@TractorData.com
 
   / Yet Another 1st Time Tractor Buyer #9  
I've been trying to do my research but the sheer amount of different opinions and information out there is overwhelming.

I grew up on 26 acres in southern middle TN and after my father's passing last year maintaining everything has fallen on my shoulders.

So all that being said, we are looking to get rid of this tractor and move on to something else but we are not sure which direction to go. I've got a 10' pull behind bush hog that this tractor will need to be able to pull and I've been spoilt with the front end loader so that's a must have.

The other side of the spectrum is finding a relatively low hour 5065E or 5075E.

The most efficient way to shop for tractors is to first identify potential tractor applications, then, through consulataton, establish bare tractor weight necessary to safely accomplish your applications. Tractor dealers, experienced tractor owners and TractorByNet.com are sources for weight recommendations.

Bare tractor weight is a fundamental tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models, new and used. Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range.


The International 574 he's referring to was 52 HP @ PTO, and weighed about 2 1/2 tons.

Good choices in well proved models. A 4-WD tractor with a bare weight of 5,000 pounds should meet your needs with some margin. Enough weight to move round hay bales with the Loader. Tractors with this weight are built for ag work.

I do not know how much power the 10' wide Bush Hog requires to cut your grass.

John Deere 5075E

2008 - 2017 5E Series
Model years
Utility tractor
Series next: John Deere 5083E
Series back: John Deere 5065E

Production:
Manufacturer: John Deere
Factory: Pune, Maharashtra, India

John Deere 5075E Engine:
John Deere 2.9L 3-cyl diesel


Capacity:
Fuel: 18 gal [68.1 L]
2WD Hydraulic system: 10 gal [37.9 L]
4WD Hydraulic system: 10.3 gal [39.0 L]
Front axle: 4.8 qts [4.5 L]
Front hubs: 0.85 qts [0.8 L] *

Drawbar:
Drawbar: adjustable drawbar

3-Point Hitch:
Rear Type: 2
Control: position and top-link draft control
Rear lift (at 24"/610mm): 3,192 lbs [1447 kg]

Power Take-off (PTO):
Rear PTO: independent
Clutch: mechanical
Rear RPM: 540
Engine RPM: 540@2400

Dimensions
2WD Weight (shipping): 4,634 lbs [2101 kg]
4WD Weight (shipping): 5,070 lbs [2299 kg]
4WD Weight (operating): 5,475 lbs [2483 kg]
Wheelbase: 80.7 inches [204 cm]
Length: 137.8 inches [350 cm]
Width: 57.3 inches [145 cm] (axle flange)
Height (hood): 53.8 inches [136 cm]
Height (ROPS): 96.8 inches [245 cm]
78.5 inches [199 cm] (folded)
2WD Clearance (front axle): 18.8 inches [47 cm]
4WD Clearance (front axle): 13.4 inches [34 cm]
Front axle: Flange
Front tread: 56 to 80 inches
[142 to 203 cm]
Rear tread: 55.8 to 71.7 inches
[141 to 182 cm]
2WD turn radius: 11.6 feet [3.5 m]
10.6 feet [3.2 m] (with brakes)

John Deere 5075E attachments:
Loader type: John Deere 512
Height (to pin): 114 inches [289 cm]
Clearance, dumped bucket: 85 inches [215 cm]
Dump reach: 26 inches [66 cm]
Dump angle: 57
Reach at ground: 68 inches [172 cm]
Rollback at ground: 23
Breakout force (at pin): 4,775 lbs [2165 kg]
Breakout force (at 800mm): 3,250 lbs [1474 kg]
Lift to full height (at pin): 2,453 lbs [1112 kg]
Lift to full height (at 800mm): 1,580 lbs [716 kg]

Lift to 1.5m (at pin): 3,236 lbs [1467 kg]
Lift to 1.5m (at 800mm): 2,343 lbs [1062 kg]
Bucket width: 73 inches [185 cm]

John Deere 5075E Power:
Engine (gross): 75 hp [55.9 kW]
PTO (claimed): 61 hp [45.5 kW]
PTO (tested): 64.42 hp [48.0 kW]
power test details ...

Mechanical:
Chassis: 4x2 2WD
4x4 MFWD 4WD
Final drives: planetary
Differential lock: rear diff lock standard
Steering: hydrostatic power
Brakes: hydraulic wet disc
Cab: Folding 2-post ROPS. Optional canopy. Optional deluxe canopy with lights and insulation.

Hydraulics:
Type: open center
2WD Capacity: 10 gal [37.9 L]
4WD Capacity: 10.3 gal [39.0 L]
Pressure: 2828 psi [195.0 bar]
Rear valves: 1 or 2
Mid valves: 2 (optional)
Pump flow: 11.4 gpm [43.1 lpm]
Total flow: 18.2 gpm [68.9 lpm]
Steering flow: 6.8 gpm [25.7 lpm]
Steering press.: 1958 psi [135.0 bar]

Electrical:
Ground: negative
Charging system: altenrator
Charging amps: 40

Battery:
Number: 1
Cold-cranking amps: 623
Volts: 12

Page information:
Last update: October 24, 2015
Copyright: Copyright 2016 TractorData LLC
Contact: Peter@TractorData.com
 
Last edited:
   / Yet Another 1st Time Tractor Buyer #10  
About fifteen years ago there was a similar movement among local municipalities to restore the popular and ubiquitous Chevy Caprice squad cars of the era. They were roomy, good performing vehicles, well suited to the intended use, and the municipal shops were familiar with repair patterns, and well stocked with spare parts and well trained mechanics.

The idea was to replace the powertrain , suspension, and refurbish the rest, at what appeared to be considerable cost savings to the taxpayer. Several vendors popped up around the country.

The programs were, in the end, unmitigated disasters. Officers refused to drive what they considered unreliable and dangerous piles of excrement. Failed door latches, hinges, broken and fatigued seats, Fluid leaks, and electrical failures all contributed to the demise of these programs all across the country.

I think the same thing will happen with the fad of rebuilding old tractors. There is no way to assure a particular rebuild or refurbishing of an old piece of equipment will be successful, no matter what the nostalgia we all have for the past says. A small time rebuilder relies on craftsmanship alone, with no systems in place to really insure quality from a scientific and statistical standpoint.

Itç—´ just rebuilt obsolete junk, in the end.

WRONG thinking..... for tractors !!!!!!
 

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