Insurance Yikes!! Insurance Shocker

RWEST · Sep 29, 2005

Thanks for the input guys.
Brian and Neil - I'm still not seeing it. Technically, my X595 (and Craftsman garden tractor for that matter) meet DCNR's requirements. Do they need to be titled/registered/insured, too? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
It looks like this is a DCNR thing, not a Dept. of Motor Vehicles thing, right?

bczoom · Sep 29, 2005

RWEST,
It is DCNR, not DMV (kind of ironic that the DCNR who, in general hate off-road vehicles are in charge of registering them...).

Here's my e-mail correspondence with the DCNR which confirms it.
Read from bottom up.

----- Original Message -----
From: NR, SnowAtv
To: Brian
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 9:01 AM
Subject: RE: Utility Vehicle Title/Registration

That would be fine.
Thanks
Karen
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 3:31 PM
To: NR, SnowAtv
Subject: Re: Utility Vehicle Title/Registration

Karen,
I submitted my application for registration and title for this vehicle.
The application was returned with a request for proof of VIN.
My bill of sale only has the serial number on it. There was no cert. of origin.
Attached is a picture of the bill of sale that has the Serial # as well as a picture of the plate on the vehicle that has the Serial # and VIN. Can I print this picture and submit with the application (and a copy of the bill of sale) as proof of VIN?
Brian
----- Original Message -----
From: NR, SnowAtv
To: Brian
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 12:28 PM
Subject: RE: Utility Vehicle Title/Registration

Utility vehicles used for recreational purposes are to be title and registered with DCNR. (active or limited)

Utility vehicles used for farming or business purposes do not have to be titled and is not registered by DCNR. Vehicles used for this purpose are usually exempt from sales tax.
(We will title if the owner would like to have a title for the machine, but we will not register)

Karen

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 11:26 AM
To: snowatv@state.pa.us
Subject: Utility Vehicle Title/Registration

Good morning,

I've heard conflicting information on whether Utility Vehicles need to be titled and or registered in PA.
The vehicles I'm referring to include (but not limited to):
John Deere Gator
Kawasaki Mule
Kubota RTV
Yamaha Rhino

I've talked to some dealers and most said neither is required. On purchase, they provide only a bill of sale (no Title or Cert. of Origin). Only 1 believed registration was required but someone else in their organization took care of it so he couldn't provide details.

Looking around your web site, I've found under your glossary the following:

ATV
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/sfrmp/glossary/atv.htm
Under #3, says that "home utility vehicles" are not classified in the term of "ATV".

Off-highway vehicle
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/sfrmp/glossary/offhwyvehicle.htm
says pretty much the same thing.

Can you clarify for me? Does it depend on usage (commercial vs. private or other)?

Thanks

Brian

RWEST · Sep 30, 2005

Brian. I'm still not seeing how they can consider the Gator an ATV, but not my riding mower, based on the wording at those sites. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Not arguing with you, just trying to figure it all out.

bczoom · Sep 30, 2005

( Brian. I'm still not seeing how they can consider the Gator an ATV, but not my riding mower, based on the wording at those sites. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Not arguing with you, just trying to figure it all out. )

Which particular site/page are you on?
Using this page, it's talking about ATV's. There's no mention of other vehicles including (but not limited to) tractors, go-carts, minibikes, dune buggy...

Don't try to figure it out as it is the government. Our job as citizens is to comply but not understand.

RWEST · Sep 30, 2005

Brian -
Like I said earlier, I'm certainly not arguing with YOU - I really appreciate all the info you've furnished. I'm just very confused, and want to do the right thing, before the black DCNR choppers start circling. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I know DCNR's talking about ATV's, but, by their own definitions at the page you linked to, if my Gator's an ATV, then my lawn/garden tractor's a Class 1 (motorized, off-highway, less than 50" wide and under 800#), as are my brothers', and my X595's a Class 2. They offer no exclusions for lawn tractors or anything else, so, if it meets their criteria, it's an ATV. They can't just say "that's an ATV" and it is. (Hmmm, okay, they're the gov't so they CAN, but that doesn't make it right. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif )

Well, lawn tractors aren't (at least not yet), so, why not? Must be some other definition somewhere. Okay, digging around in DCNR's Forestry division glossary, under Off-Highway vehicles, we find an exception for Home Utility Machine, (for which I could find no further definition in the glossary). If a lawn tractor's a HUM, then, why isn't a Gator, or Mule or any of the others? That's my point. If a lawn tractor's NOT a HUM then, what is it? It's certainly motorized, off-highway, etc.., which means it's an ATV. Oops - back where we started from.

BTW - I informed the dealer I purchased the Gator from about the info you provided - he did some digging around and told me today that, as far as he knows, no J-D dealers in PA register Gators, since they're considered Home Utility Machines, just like a lawn tractor. You have a Gator, right (we're so many posts into this that I forgot)? Is your dealer the one who told you to register it? If so, is he a J-D dealer?

cowboydoc · Sep 30, 2005

Utility vehicles used for recreational purposes are to be title and registered with DCNR. (active or limited)

Utility vehicles used for farming or business purposes do not have to be titled and is not registered by DCNR. Vehicles used for this purpose are usually exempt from sales tax.
(We will title if the owner would like to have a title for the machine, but we will not register)


Yes that would be true. If you're going to have it in the woods, going in public parks, etc. then certainly you would have to have a tag. But for private use on your property or on roads right around your property you wouldn't have to have one.

RWEst I really think your interpretation is on target.