YM1110D Won't Charge

   / YM1110D Won't Charge #21  
HOORAY! Perfect! For my part I'm tickled I got to just sit here and type - while you did all the work.

The nifty thing is that once again we prove the value of these old simple Yanmars. They just might have been the best compact tractors ever. They had a near perfect blend of technical sophistication, top quality manufacture, and simple design.

Used Yanmars are still a stable & valuable commodity. Someday I'd like to visit the various old Yanmar parts and rebuilding businesses here in the US. That's my idea of a scenic vacation!
rScotty
 
   / YM1110D Won't Charge
  • Thread Starter
#22  
I agree. I'm starting to look at the ads for old Yanmars. I'd like to get something in the 30 HP range. I took a brief look at modern tractors and all of the computerized controls and emissions junk made me run away. As well as the price. Lol.

I know about Fredricks, but how many rebuilding businesses are there in the US?
 
   / YM1110D Won't Charge
  • Thread Starter
#23  
Today I adjusted the valves and took it for a test drive. My 5 year old granddaughter wanted to drive it so I let her drive it around the yard as I walked alongside. After about 20 minutes of this we pulled into the carport where I was working on it and I noticed the alternator light was on.

I shut it down and came out about three hours later with my battery tester. I started it and throttled up to about 1/2 throttle. It measured about 13 volts and climbed to 14 slowly and steadily in about a minute and stayed there. This is what it did after I "repaired" it.

Given that it was 90 degrees out, I wonder if something is breaking down due to the heat. Maybe that one diode that tested low? Or the voltage regulator?
 
   / YM1110D Won't Charge #24  
My YM186D with I think the same regulator, acts unpredictable like that. RPM to make the light go out can be anywhere from 1000 to 1600. The tractor is at low idle often when I am going from new tree to tree, watering, and drawing 8 amps for the water pump, so I see pale red or strong red frequently. Sometimes it takes a moment at higher rpm to quench the light then it stays out down to 900 rpm.

I've read that these regulators are flaky. While it seems this charging system is working erratically, the battery always tests 12.6v or better so I haven't replaced the regulator.
 
   / YM1110D Won't Charge #25  
Just curious about your 1110D. Hoyes shows "YM1110 - very limited chance of getting parts - very rare model - no sharing". Wondering what 2 cylinder engine is in the 1110D?
 
   / YM1110D Won't Charge #26  
Today I adjusted the valves and took it for a test drive. My 5 year old granddaughter wanted to drive it so I let her drive it around the yard as I walked alongside. After about 20 minutes of this we pulled into the carport where I was working on it and I noticed the alternator light was on.

I shut it down and came out about three hours later with my battery tester. I started it and throttled up to about 1/2 throttle. It measured about 13 volts and climbed to 14 slowly and steadily in about a minute and stayed there. This is what it did after I "repaired" it.

Given that it was 90 degrees out, I wonder if something is breaking down due to the heat. Maybe that one diode that tested low? Or the voltage regulator?

Are testing at battery for your voltage to start at 13 volts and climb slowly to 14 volts, or a different location?
Since our yanmars have a separate regulator (typically mounted on the ‘firewall’) and alternator. And all of the work you have done checking your alternator, and the know frequent failure of the fin cooling style regulators, my educated guess is you have and have had a voltage regulator issue.
 
   / YM1110D Won't Charge #27  
Today I adjusted the valves and took it for a test drive. My 5 year old granddaughter wanted to drive it so I let her drive it around the yard as I walked alongside. After about 20 minutes of this we pulled into the carport where I was working on it and I noticed the alternator light was on.

I shut it down and came out about three hours later with my battery tester. I started it and throttled up to about 1/2 throttle. It measured about 13 volts and climbed to 14 slowly and steadily in about a minute and stayed there. This is what it did after I "repaired" it.

Given that it was 90 degrees out, I wonder if something is breaking down due to the heat. Maybe that one diode that tested low? Or the voltage regulator?

I'd say that in teaching a granddaughter to drive a tractor that YM1110D has just paid for itself. Anything else is gravy.

I doubt that the charging light is telling us much about the alternator. That guess on how heat is affecting that one diode is a possiblilty, but given how diodes work that's probably not it. In fact, the one diode that tested "low" is actually probably the best of the group rather than the worst. Theoretically a diode should have no resistance at all to current flow in one direction and infinite resistance in the other. You reversed the current flow from the battery in the multimeter when you swapped the multimeter leads.

Now it is true that diodes are heat sensitive, and that they will change state when heated .... but they tend to change state quickly - like flipping a switch - and their common failure mode is to short circuit internally - in which case alternator output goes directly to zero instead of being somewhat flaky as you are seeing.

WARNING! You can kill those rectifier diodes - and the ones in the voltage regulator - in a flash by hooking up a jumper battery or big battery charger backwards to your Yanmar and accidently getting the polarity wrong just for an instant. Those old Yanmars were among the first to use rectifiers in their alternator and they forgot to build back-bias protection. You can still jump or charge the Yanmar safely if you need to do so, but must be extra careful that the polarity is correct.

Given what you are seeing between pale red or strong red I'm guessing that the deficit is the Voltage Regulator although it could be the battery itself. Those early Zener-based VR were not very good, and using low quality parts made the worse. How the VR works is that when it sees more than 13.5 volts DC coming from the 4 rectifiers you tested on that plate, the VR reaches all the way back to the alternator coils and decreases one side of the AC waveform right as it is being produced from the coils before it even gets to those 4 rectifiers. At that point the rectifiers see one half of the incoming AC wave as being normal, but the other half of the AC wave is attenuated. Because the DC that the rectifiers are making for you is simply additive, reducing half the incoming wave causes the total output to the VR to drop below 13.5 volts. If you really crank up the RPM, the voltage regulator has the option to also put a resistor into the circuit so that the attenuated side of the alternator output is reduced farther. This all happens real fast, in fact it can happen many times a second. Once the voltage is reduced to 13.5, the VR turns itself off, whereupon the voltage immediately rises to over 13.5....making the whole cycle repeat itself.
If your charging system is working efficiently enough so that it charges at real low RPM (most don't) then you can even see the flicker as the VR regulates itself.

The charging lamp is a whole 'nother story. The charging light is a little sub-circuit within the voltage regulator and is highly dependent on the resistance of the bulb, the socket, and any corrosion there. By rights that charging lamp ought to have it's own little diode in a dedicated branch circuit that would only let it light up when more current is draining from the battery than is going into it. And it would light up proportionately to how much current it was missing. But that would have cost an extra dollar, so instead it shares a diode within the voltage regulator and what you get for that is irratic performance of the charging indicator.
Basically, if the charging light goes out when you rev the engine then don't worry about it. If the light is slightly on when you are operating, then figure that means you are slightly discharging the battery at that rpm, but that it is slight.

If you get curious about how it all works, try keeping the headlights on and see what difference that makes.
Are you even more curious? Then hook your multimeter across the battery terminals, strap the multimeter to the dash close to the charging lamp, and see what if you can combine the two pieces of information using your own inbuilt charging circuit.

Only if the light is on brightly before you start the tractor and doesn't change at all once you start up does it mean that something is wrong with the charging system and needs to be fixed - and I'd still believe the multimeter over the charging lamp.

Of course if the charging system does need attention, you can always elect to replace Yanmar's oddball sized garden tractor battery with a small automotive battery, and that has the advantage of letting you ignore that fact that it may not charge for months on end. By charging with a household battery "smart" charger every few months and not using the headlights much, you will find that a standard automotive battery will start and run that little tractor for months. Maybe all season. That's all the battery does in those old Yanmars, it just starts the motor. BTW, try to get the type of battery that is sealed or AGM type. I recommend you Do NOT use an open old style refillable type cheapie battery with the caps on top sitting that close to your nice (expensive) Yanmar radiator. If you need to expand the size of the battery box a little so as to fit a small automotive battery it will be one of the best things you will ever do for your Yanmar. Keep the expanded box as far away from the radiator as you can.

There are other ways to look at charging. For example, if you were to wire a voltmeter permanently into the circuit, or strap that multimeter to the dash, I think you will see a different charging picture than the charge lamp is showing you.

Bottom line. Like Winston. and California and Coy are saying, a flickering charge lamp at low to medium rpm is most likely your VR or your battery (or both) and probably not worth worrying about unless you want to change to a better battery - which you ought to do anyway. Then you basically don't care if it doesn't charge.

With a small car battery, you and your granddaughter can drive it all week anyway.

Enjoy,
rScotty
 
   / YM1110D Won't Charge #28  
Just curious about your 1110D. Hoyes shows "YM1110 - very limited chance of getting parts - very rare model - no sharing". Wondering what 2 cylinder engine is in the 1110D?

I wouldn't worry too much about parts. That 1110D was very similar to the YM135D which sold quite a few in the USA at the time. Also, the same engine was used in marine shops all over the world and still is common.
Here is some info that you will find interesting, and a workshop manual that is applicable to these small tractors.
rScotty
 

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   / YM1110D Won't Charge
  • Thread Starter
#29  
Thanks for all the info, guys.

Winston1 - It has a 2T72 engine.

CoyPatton - I am testing at the battery terminals. I'm using a Milton battery tester.

rScotty -

Granddaughter loved driving it. It was 90 degrees and she didn't want to quit! She wore me out. :laughing:

My tractor has a 51 size car battery with 425 CCA. I charged it a few days ago and tested a couple of times and it's held a charge but I'll keep an eye on it. I got this tractor last fall and have had to charge it several times but I chalked it up to sitting and not having a working charging system. I'll look to replace it with a sealed battery.

Thanks for all the info. I'll read through it a few more times to digest it all and then it sounds like I'll need to just use the tractor and keep and eye on what it is doing and try to get an understanding of its 50 year-old quirks.
 
   / YM1110D Won't Charge #30  
I was about 90+% sure you were testing at the battery ax I recognized a battery tester. After over 40 years in and around the automotive repair industry, those have there place but are limited. I have no problems using one to check a battery and even checking the battery with a simulated load, and checking a charging system to the battery, but this latter is in my opinion a pass/fail test and judgement call. And for this test, idle is a poor testing situation. Idiot lights are even less useful.
Having determined that at an above idle, you have acceptable output, personally, I would plan a battery charger full charge any time your tractor would sit unused for an extended period. The best single thing you can do for a modern automotive type battery is to not allow it to sit with a low charge. A slow (low amp trickle) charge is usually best as that is usually how the charge is lost.
There are exceptions to that rule—headlights left on, frequent starts with low idle running between starts for a couple of examples to the start.
Since you experience the battery not charging, do not overlook the most common issue being the battery no longer accepts a full charge or will hold a charge. Get it tested if still having a ‘dead’ battery issue.
 

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