YM2310 starting issue?

[etpm]

This tractor is my first diesel. Yesterday when I started it the temp was 40 degrees, or maybe a few degrees cooler. So not too cold. Following the instructions in the manual I turned on the thermostart for 10 seconds. Well, at least the thermostart light was on. With the throttle set for about 2000 RPM I pulled out the compression release knob, cranked the engine and let go of the knob. It almost started. So I tried again without the thermostart. It started but died as soon as I stopped cranking. So I tried a third time. I just cranked the engine until it started, about 7 seconds, which seemed like a really long time. White and black smoke, then just copious amounts of black smoke came out of the stack but it was running. I throttled down to 1500 RPM and it sounded fine and did not smoke. The smoke really only lasted two or three seconds, I could tell it was just unburned and partially burned fuel. Once started and with the RPM set to 1500 it sounded normal and didn't smoke. Tomorrow I will test the thermostart to make sure it is working. But did I do anything wrong trying to start the thing? At 50 degrees it starts right up without the thermostart. I was wondering if actuating the thermostart just dumped diesel without igniting it, and that's why I saw white smoke and then lots of black smoke. Because the engine was flooded. Anyway, tomorrow I'll check the thermostart and then I can know a little bit more.
Thanks,
Eric

 

[bmaverick]

You did well with the intended directions followed at the bottom of the page here:

All States Ag Parts | Used & New Tractor, Combine & Skid Steer Parts

All States Ag Parts is the leading supplier of tractor, combine, and skid steer parts to North America. Shop for new aftermarket, remanufactured, and used tractor parts.

www.hoyetractor.com

However, that's generic across all the machines. Some machines take about 15 seconds or no more than 20 seconds holding the TS before starting.

I use a hair dryer to warm up the metal intake manifold when it's really cold out, like tomorrow with a high of 26F. Then I would use the TS system with no troubles.

On the Yanmar Tractor Owners Group, lots of discussion with the TS system and the block heaters. Most of the YM Series machines have a dedicated block heater port near the starter, BUT as rScotty would point out, don't go hammering on it to take the plug out because it's been in there for 40+ years. Fit the plug interface, get a 4ft leverage pry bar, and EZ walk it loose.

 

[California]

Also for a diesel, unlike a car, you can keep the starter engaged while it struggles to run evenly.

Thermostart when its working properly will make a near-silent pop at about the 15 second point, as the vapor it created catches fire. Listen for this. Repeat as needed.

You can also aim that hair dryer right into the air intake when you crank it, after warming the manifold for a few minutes.

 

[ponytug]

@bmaverick The way I read the Hoye instructions is that is 10 seconds on 30 off for a dry igniter. Would that mean that it is ok to use the thermostart again on the second try?

Just curious.

@etpm A cold diesel that doesn't start right away will end up having fuel coated cylinders and exhaust manifolds, so I would say a certain amount of white and black smoke is to be expected. To the extent the thermostart didn't actually ignite the diesel dripping through it, the engine will also run richer until that fuel burns off, so more black smoke. Overall, I wouldn't sweat it. I will ask the dumb question about whether your thermostart reservoir has fuel in it.

There is a nice video on YouTube of a thermostart in action. (And yes,@California about fifteen seconds in, it catches fire...)

All the best,

Peter

 

[bmaverick]

@bmaverick The way I read the Hoye instructions is that is 10 seconds on 30 off for a dry igniter. Would that mean that it is ok to use the thermostart again on the second try?

Just curious.

@etpm A cold diesel that doesn't start right away will end up having fuel coated cylinders and exhaust manifolds, so I would say a certain amount of white and black smoke is to be expected. To the extent the thermostart didn't actually ignite the diesel dripping through it, the engine will also run richer until that fuel burns off, so more black smoke. Overall, I wouldn't sweat it. I will ask the dumb question about whether your thermostart reservoir has fuel in it.

There is a nice video on YouTube of a thermostart in action. (And yes,@California about fifteen seconds in, it catches fire...)

All the best,

Peter

Yes, the fire starting is GOOOOOD. Must have a burst of heat.

 

[etpm]

@bmaverick The way I read the Hoye instructions is that is 10 seconds on 30 off for a dry igniter. Would that mean that it is ok to use the thermostart again on the second try?

Just curious.

@etpm A cold diesel that doesn't start right away will end up having fuel coated cylinders and exhaust manifolds, so I would say a certain amount of white and black smoke is to be expected. To the extent the thermostart didn't actually ignite the diesel dripping through it, the engine will also run richer until that fuel burns off, so more black smoke. Overall, I wouldn't sweat it. I will ask the dumb question about whether your thermostart reservoir has fuel in it.

There is a nice video on YouTube of a thermostart in action. (And yes,@California about fifteen seconds in, it catches fire...)

All the best,

Peter

Not a dumb question and I dunno about fuel in the reservoir. I will tomorrow because I'm gonna use the service manual instructions to test the thermostart. After checking the thermostart tomorrow I will report my findings.
Eric

 

[bmaverick]

Not a dumb question and I dunno about fuel in the reservoir. I will tomorrow because I'm gonna use the service manual instructions to test the thermostart. After checking the thermostart tomorrow I will report my findings.
Eric

FYI, not all thermostarts on our machines are fuel feed the same. Some are directly feed from the fuel tank and other machines have a dixie cup reservoir that one has to fill. LOL

 

[etpm]

FYI, not all thermostarts on our machines are fuel feed the same. Some are directly feed from the fuel tank and other machines have a dixie cup reservoir that one has to fill. LOL

Mine has the little plastic reservoir. I'm going out now to see if it is full.
Eric

 

[California]

I think on all YM's released after 1980 that little thermostart reservoir is fed from the injector overflow return line, so the reservoir doesn't need to be manually filled.

 

[etpm]

I think on all YM's released after 1980 that little thermostart reservoir is fed from the injector overflow return line, so the reservoir doesn't need to be manually filled.

That's how mine is. There's a hose from the injectors that goes to the reservoir. From the reservoir are two hoses, one to the thermostart device and one to the fuel tank. 3 hoses total.
Eric

 

[bmaverick]

I think on all YM's released after 1980 that little thermostart reservoir is fed from the injector overflow return line, so the reservoir doesn't need to be manually filled.

Mine's a 1981, and I have to fill it. LOL Good for 3 to 5 starts.

 

[etpm]

Mine's a 1981, and I have to fill it. LOL Good for 3 to 5 starts.

I checked mine today. Plenty of fuel in it. Then I got pulled away for other chores so tomorrow I will check to see if the thermostart heats up. It looks like the best way to check this, since I'm the only one available, is to remove the intake from the air cleaner. Then I can pretty much look into the intake manifold while turning the key.
Eric

 

[ponytug]

I checked mine today. Plenty of fuel in it. Then I got pulled away for other chores so tomorrow I will check to see if the thermostart heats up. It looks like the best way to check this, since I'm the only one available, is to remove the intake from the air cleaner. Then I can pretty much look into the intake manifold while turning the key.
Eric

Don't forget to listen for the "near silent pop"!

All the best,

Peter

 

[runningbird]

If below 40 I cycle the thermo start 2 times, then like california said keep it running with the starter.

I think what you are describing is completely normal for our older tractors.

 

[bmaverick]

Don't forget to listen for the "near silent pop"!

All the best,

Peter

Depending on temps, it's a POP or a sizzle crackling sound. Heard it both ways.

 

[etpm]

I guess the thermostart is dead. It has power. It has fuel. I took the rubber tube from the air cleaner off of the intake manifold and watched the end of the thermostart. No fuel dripped out, no smoke or fire. So I guess it is bad. Oh well.
Eric

 

[bmaverick]

I guess the thermostart is dead. It has power. It has fuel. I took the rubber tube from the air cleaner off of the intake manifold and watched the end of the thermostart. No fuel dripped out, no smoke or fire. So I guess it is bad. Oh well.
Eric

They go bad when no fuel is used or held way too long powered up.

Several places have them on the web. Just be sure to get the right one with the right threads.

 

[California]

I think there's just one model Thermostart. With the slight variance of sometimes, for older tractors, a screw in a threaded hole on the tab where later model connectors slide on. I've read that there are later Thermostarts with different threads but I've never seen a post about that variant.

And I've recently seen prices on Ebay from $12 to over $60. [Update: for the Perkins # shown below, $10.40 from Houston with free shipping, clear up to nearly $120 shipped from Italy.] All are clones of this original, made after Perkins' patent expired. The earliest application I know of might be the Perkins diesels in MF '35'.

Here's an old thread about these where I first posted this picture. I paid $15, locally, for the new Genuine Perkins replacement in this box.

 

[bmaverick]

Plug it in and turn it on.

Fire in the hole. The POP.

The burn goes sizzle.

General location for some Yanmar engine models.

 

[California]

View attachment 724073






Fire in the hole. The POP.
View attachment 724076

The burn goes sizzle.
View attachment 724077

Hey I resemble that remark (or something like that) . The Hitachi SH100-02 part # specified in your document, is visible on that dead Thermostart from my YM240 resting on the Perkins box in my photo. Maybe it was original from 1980!

And the Pop and Burn photos? My YM240! I posted them here long ago and told Aaron he could use those in his Thermostart description. I recognize my 'Installed 11-07' and '120 hours' written on the air filter element. Ok, end of personal rant. Well until someone asks my opinion on something.