You guys are gonna think I'm nuts...........

[TrafficCopSmith]

A tornado shelter and college fund are probably the best ideas on this thread so far.

 

[Stargazer]

Hi Google fallout /tornado shelter. Many sites had scanned the 60' CD phamlets on contruction etc. Funny within 100 yds of my house I know of 3 fallout shelters not just nado sheds. Check out the 80's movie The Day After centered on KC Think there are still missle silos under control of whitman/warren AFB.

 

[Obed]

In the case of the thermonuclear weapons there is only a very small fission (P239 or U235) device which triggers the larger fusion device. Now there are pluses and minuses to thermonuclear weapons better known as Hydrogen bombs to some. A minus is that they are far more powerful, but a plus is that the byproducts of the attack are mostly Tritium. Tritium has a much much shorter half life (think night sights on a handgun) and is less likely to activate other materials that it comes into contact with. ... however if you are near enough to be affected by fallout but far enough away to survive a direct blast that you may very well be able to survive if able to hold up in a bunker for a couple of weeks.

I looked up the half-life of tritium. Yes it is much shorter than P239 or U235. The half-life of tritium is 12 years. So it takes 12 years for the fallout to become half as dangerous as it was originally. I admit, there are other factors to consider. Rain can wash away some of the radioactive dust to diminish the radioactivity levels. After a few days, the radioactive dust may settle some making it less airborne and less of a breathing hazard.

The most likely scenarios we face are a single dirty bomb or a suitcase bomb from a terriorist attack. Here's what I would do if I lived in an area that was experiencing hazardous radiactivity levels. I would pack up the cars and leave the area immediately, the sooner the better. Trust me, that would be much safer for your family than sitting in a bunker. Evacuating would be the best thing you could do. Sitting in a bunker would only expose your family to more radioactivity, not less. Knowing what I know from my nuclear submarining days, if my house and property were exposed to hazardous levels of nuclear radioactivity, I would never ever want to live there again. Thus, there would be no incentive to stay there to protect it from vandals and thieves so I wouldn't need a fallout shelter.

The best reason a fallout bunker would be useful would be if you could not leave the area for a place that had less fallout. In the event of a limited terrorist attack, you could always just leave the affected area. In the event of an all-out nuclear war with Russia or China, the whole country would be devastated so there would be no place to which you could easily travel. In that case, the bunker might slow down the radiation poisoning, but I would see the long term survival prospects of being low.

The cost of building a tornado shelter would be much less than building a fallout shelter. For a tornado shelter, you only need to be in it for minutes up to a few hours so it doesn't need to be very big, doesn't need a toilet, doesn't need food and water, and doesn't need a concrete shell and roof. If there is a terrorist nuke attack, you would probably leave the premises immediately anyway so the bunker would be of no use.

Obed

 

[forgeblast]

I think the root cellar type would be a better way to go. the dirt that surrounds it will act as a buffer for the radiation plus it would be more hidden. I would just want two ways in, or one way in and two ways out so that in case of the door being messed with you can still get out. there was some sites out there that showed how much dirt you needed to be safe.
if you have ever seen the show secret passages, they show this bunker a guy built by himself at night with a little concret mixer, amazing. i have never been able to find net pictures of it, but it was a thing to marvel at.

 

[6thgpSF]

I'm sixty and remember going through the cuban missile crisis when I was in jr.high.Some guy in our neighaborhood built a bomb shelter,the govt. would send you plans for one,we used to pratice for nuc. war in school.all municipal bldgs. stocked food in the form of some kinda biscuit.I remember seeing them in the basements of the Vets. hospital where I worked in Topeka,Ks. that were still there in the 70s.I don't think there would be much left in an all out war,the human species would just about have to start over I think.Didn't we develop a nutron bomb?as I understand it doesn't destroy the buildings etc.I myself use a cave or root cellar for tornados and such.I think we all should be more concerned about terroists using a bio weapon against us like annthrix or plague.the methods to do this are a lot less sophisticated than to hit us with a nuclear bomb. russ

 

[CumminsLuke]

This is all great info and great responses. I don't know, what I am going to do, I just feel like I should do something? I could build a pretty good tornado shelter in my basement relatively easy and inexpensively. The thought of all the evil in the world and their desire to due us harm makes me think I should examine bunker options in order to take cover from whatever could happen. I just don't know? I feel like my family deserves a fighting chance.

 

[Trails2004]

I don't know, where I live it is highly unlikely that a nuclear attack would happen anywhere even close, but the fallout from such an attack could affect us.......

With all due respect- fallout would affect you- Fallout will eventually touch everything- water supplies 1000 miles away- Food sources 2000 miles away.

It is not IF-- it is WHEN

Enough doom and gloom already

 

[GPintheMitten]

CumminsLake,

I can relate to you wanting to do what you can for your family. You're the man of the family and you want to protect them. You are also the leader of the family. They will all take their cue from you.

I think if you get into a bunker mentality that could over take you and affect the whole outlook in the family. If you could pass on the feeling of optimism and can do attitude, while meeting their physical needs of protection and bread winning, you will do them more good than trying to create a bunker of protection from the world. Let go of this fallout shelter part of the project and just make reasonable precautions for natural disasters or power losses etc.

Then live your life to the fullest. They are looking to you to lead them in life.

Best wishes....GP

 

[sld]

Very, very interesting thread!

Sometimes it is easy to get overwhelmed with the doom and gloom.

Without trying to offend anyone, putting your trust in the Almighty goes a long ways towards peace of mind.

I subscribe to the group that says if it a nuclear attack happens, let it be quick.

 

[Lt CHEG]

Very good points Obed, I guess I am thinking more along the lines of having more options. For example if I were on the edge of a nuclear attack and the wind was heading in my direction I might be inclined to shelter in place for a bit until some rain washed much of the airborne contamination out of the atmosphere before bugging out. If I was able to get away quick in a direction where the wind was blowing away from me then I would probably go away immediately. I'd prefer to deal with accumulated contamination that is not airborne for a couple of days rather than deal with airborne alpha emitters for even an hour.

Secondly if for whatever reason a terrorist nuclear attack was imminent and for whatever reason it was announced by the terrorists so as to maximize panic and fear, there would be a good chance that we couldn't get away in time. In that circumstance since I am not directly in a big city I might have a shot at withstanding the blast effects from a direct hit to the closest big city in my bunker and then waiting for a little bit for airborne contamination to subside before venturing away from the area. Again the best choice would be to get the heck out of dodge but if panic causes a traffic snarl that wouldn't allow us to get out then you've got an option.

In all these instances I agree that getting away is the best option in the event of a nuclear blast from a terrorist, but I do think that a bomb shelter does have some value, especially if it can double as a tornado shelter to a person prone to tornado activity. It would definitely have much less use in the event of a full scale nuclear war, but I'd rather have a chance and hope that our missle defense systems could limit the number of direct hits. With all that said a shelter such as this is much further down my priority list than some other survival plans so that is why I don't have one, nor do I plan on building one any time soon.

As an aside, my first real job out of college was as a nuclear engineer for the Navy.I was a civilian but I spent a bunch of time on the LA Class, Ohio Class, Nimitz Class and the Enterprise. I never got the chance to go to the RC of the Seawolf class and I left that job before the Virginia was commissioned. I really didn't like my job and thought I spent too much time pushing paper instead of doing engineering but I definitely got to see some cool stuff while I was working there. The only thing I miss about that job was getting to see on a daily basis what our enemies had in store for them if they ever messed with us, not only in our vessels but also the sailors who manned them. Definitely a lot of good people. When did you get out Obed, I wonder if we ever crossed paths? I was at Norfolk until 2003.