Zforce 44 or CC 2544 series?

[MowingDebt]

I think I would go with the M50-KHS over the Zforce models. The trannies on the M50 is commercial grade - at least they advertise it as commercial. I just want the most and best for the least. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Compare these guys and tell me which you think is better built.

CC M50-KHS
Snapper 450Z
any other comparisons ?

If the M50 had a commercial deck I would probably have decided to buy it but I keep holding out thinking there is something better for less out there.

*NOTE: I do sometimes mow the entire 6 acres by myself. So durability is a must. I am tired of cheap Murra_'s that you spend more time working on than mowing. I want to buy something NEW, dependable, durable, and backed by a warranty to boot. Financing is Everything! I do not have a stack of money laying around.

CC ZF mowers look cheap! I measured the grass discharge opening and well lets say "It is no wonder the deck on the ZF 44 clogs. The ZF 50 has a bit wider opening but the M50 beats them hands down!

Explain what I should be looking for in the trannies. I want a long-distance mower. The area I mow at the church (6 acres) is basically flat as a pancake. My house has about .25 of an acre on a 30 degree slope but for the most part I need something with speed, mobility, and built for a few bumps while mowing!

 

[MowingDebt]

I think I would go with the M50-KHS over the Zforce models. The trannies on the M50 is commercial grade - at least they advertise it as commercial. I just want the most and best for the least. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Compare these guys and tell me which you think is better built.

CC M50-KHS
Snapper 450Z
any other comparisons ?

If the M50 had a commercial deck I would probably have decided to buy it but I keep holding out thinking there is something better for less out there.

*NOTE: I do sometimes mow the entire 6 acres by myself. So durability is a must. I am tired of cheap Murra_'s that you spend more time working on than mowing. I want to buy something NEW, dependable, durable, and backed by a warranty to boot. Financing is Everything! I do not have a stack of money laying around.

CC ZF mowers look cheap! I measured the grass discharge opening and well lets say "It is no wonder the deck on the ZF 44 clogs. The ZF 50 has a bit wider opening but the M50 beats them hands down!

Explain what I should be looking for in the trannies. I want a long-distance mower. The area I mow at the church (6 acres) is basically flat as a pancake. My house has about .25 of an acre on a 30 degree slope but for the most part I need something with speed, mobility, and built for a few bumps while mowing!

 

[Spiffy]

Ironically, I was just out mowing with my old Murry built LT. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif And I do spend enough time fixing it too. Was sure wishing for the ZTR (about half this property has obstacles, making the ZTR even nicer), but unless I'm performing maintence [oil change, blade sharpen....] too, just can't justify the gas to haul it up here.

If you're comparing other brands, it'd be slight cross-post considering this discussion, but you might get more replies in lawn&garden than CC. Your choice; I doubt the moderators would complain of cross-posting with the expanded search, but perhaps you like everything in one thread too.

Nothing wrong with the M50, and it might have the right combination for your tasks. However, if the dealer tried to convince you the M50 has commercial transmissions, tell him to crawl under it, then the ZF; if he doesn't recognize the IZT design, then he better look at the M48 (pumps and wheel motors is considered commercial design). The IZT2800, does have more toque, a filter, and a [tiny] external resevior; however, comparing the M50 to the ZF it also needs to handle 30% more weight and 30% more speed. It may turn out to be one heck of a transmission, but pumps/wheel motors are tried and true [now that I've wrote that, Murphy's Law dictates somebody will come up with a disposable version of that too /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif ]

Sorry about the rant......the M50 may be a great choice, but didn't want you to buy it assuming it had the same drivetrain as the other Tanks.

As to other brands.......almost endless, but I have no idea what brands are sold down your way. Gravely and Scag both have nice units in your size, but I doubt price. Do check the Ferris and Simplicity lines, if you like the Snapper. Hustler takes a different approach yet, heavy frame and fabricated deck [and great warranty], but IZT (in the $5K range) and you pay extra for premium engines.

About trannies: integrated transmissions have the resevior, pump and drive motor all in one: theoretically, no hoses means less HP loss; in reality:it's cheaper. The contained unit doesn't disperse heat as well nor have as much oil to circulate as a commercial system; so long mowing sesions or harsh conditions are a bigger enemy for them - on top of the commercial systems still being assumed [good luck getting straight answers to IZT longevity] to have more life in the first place.

Applied to your conditions, the hill is on the short mowing session and the longer mowing session is perfectly flat, so it may not be an issue. Being paranoid, I'd still put drivetrain quality pretty high on the list for your conditions - but I'm paranoid about such things. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<font color="red">edit: </font> HydroGear Link Note the ZT series under consumer products, 2200=EZT [RZT44], 2400=IZT [ZF50], 2600= charged IZT [ZF48], they don't list it, but it follows that adding the resevior = 2800 [M50] ; supposedly it encompasses many of the same parts as their commercial pumps & motors, I'm still a bit skeptical, but that's just me.

 

[Spiffy]

Ironically, I was just out mowing with my old Murry built LT. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif And I do spend enough time fixing it too. Was sure wishing for the ZTR (about half this property has obstacles, making the ZTR even nicer), but unless I'm performing maintence [oil change, blade sharpen....] too, just can't justify the gas to haul it up here.

If you're comparing other brands, it'd be slight cross-post considering this discussion, but you might get more replies in lawn&garden than CC. Your choice; I doubt the moderators would complain of cross-posting with the expanded search, but perhaps you like everything in one thread too.

Nothing wrong with the M50, and it might have the right combination for your tasks. However, if the dealer tried to convince you the M50 has commercial transmissions, tell him to crawl under it, then the ZF; if he doesn't recognize the IZT design, then he better look at the M48 (pumps and wheel motors is considered commercial design). The IZT2800, does have more toque, a filter, and a [tiny] external resevior; however, comparing the M50 to the ZF it also needs to handle 30% more weight and 30% more speed. It may turn out to be one heck of a transmission, but pumps/wheel motors are tried and true [now that I've wrote that, Murphy's Law dictates somebody will come up with a disposable version of that too /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif ]

Sorry about the rant......the M50 may be a great choice, but didn't want you to buy it assuming it had the same drivetrain as the other Tanks.

As to other brands.......almost endless, but I have no idea what brands are sold down your way. Gravely and Scag both have nice units in your size, but I doubt price. Do check the Ferris and Simplicity lines, if you like the Snapper. Hustler takes a different approach yet, heavy frame and fabricated deck [and great warranty], but IZT (in the $5K range) and you pay extra for premium engines.

About trannies: integrated transmissions have the resevior, pump and drive motor all in one: theoretically, no hoses means less HP loss; in reality:it's cheaper. The contained unit doesn't disperse heat as well nor have as much oil to circulate as a commercial system; so long mowing sesions or harsh conditions are a bigger enemy for them - on top of the commercial systems still being assumed [good luck getting straight answers to IZT longevity] to have more life in the first place.

Applied to your conditions, the hill is on the short mowing session and the longer mowing session is perfectly flat, so it may not be an issue. Being paranoid, I'd still put drivetrain quality pretty high on the list for your conditions - but I'm paranoid about such things. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<font color="red">edit: </font> HydroGear Link Note the ZT series under consumer products, 2200=EZT [RZT44], 2400=IZT [ZF50], 2600= charged IZT [ZF48], they don't list it, but it follows that adding the resevior = 2800 [M50] ; supposedly it encompasses many of the same parts as their commercial pumps & motors, I'm still a bit skeptical, but that's just me.

 

[Spiffy]

BTW, with that 30degree slope; definitely make sure you can "try before you buy".

As to the comparison between the two links:
I like the rear tires, pivoting front, and the spindle bearings on the M50.

The transmission and deck on the 450Z would likely steer me that way.

You'd likely prefer the chute on the M50 [I see Snapper has a rubber addition on the 2006 NZMs - I can sure take out lawn ornaments with the steel one like that 450Z has! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif], but that's personal choice, as well as the Command vs. the Vangard.

soooooo the best buy is? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Spiffy]

BTW, with that 30degree slope; definitely make sure you can "try before you buy".

As to the comparison between the two links:
I like the rear tires, pivoting front, and the spindle bearings on the M50.

The transmission and deck on the 450Z would likely steer me that way.

You'd likely prefer the chute on the M50 [I see Snapper has a rubber addition on the 2006 NZMs - I can sure take out lawn ornaments with the steel one like that 450Z has! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif], but that's personal choice, as well as the Command vs. the Vangard.

soooooo the best buy is? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Spiffy]

Just broke the LT again. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Sheared a steering connection, too dark to mow now, so I'll fix it tomorrow.

Ironically, just before that, I was mowing the open area here and got thinking if obstacles are few for you, the 2554 starts looking pretty good again....still I love being able to mow at nearly 10mph, and turn on a dime even in open areas. Also have a theory that saving time on turns should extend engine life, but ask me in 10 years. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Spiffy]

Just broke the LT again. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Sheared a steering connection, too dark to mow now, so I'll fix it tomorrow.

Ironically, just before that, I was mowing the open area here and got thinking if obstacles are few for you, the 2554 starts looking pretty good again....still I love being able to mow at nearly 10mph, and turn on a dime even in open areas. Also have a theory that saving time on turns should extend engine life, but ask me in 10 years. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Spiffy]

Hope I'm not posting to a dead thread here, but noticed something interesting [even if not exactly surprising] yesterday.

I don't think there is a ZF left in town [1 dealer and 1 TSC store, but they each order several; the former I think requests two shipments with several each]. This is at least the second year of that! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

All kinds of RZTs left. I only know of one ZF60 [same class as the M50 in my mind - I still wish both were called ZF-Pros or Estate Tanks or something]; it hasn't sold yet, but $5500 is a large pricetag for TSC.

I don't think the dealer here orders M50s [at least one in Sioux Falls does though: don't know what's hot around there this year], which if going to 3 year financing anyway, I also like the logic of getting an M48; however if they sell as well as Gamble77 here has noted, I'm surprised they don't stock a few.

Barring the 50, the dealer has gone through I'd say at least one of every size [deck not engine] Tank; they only have one, an M54 [with industrial air cleaner /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif ], left on the lot.

Anyway, doesn't really tell much per se, but thought some would find it interesting reading. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[Spiffy]

Hope I'm not posting to a dead thread here, but noticed something interesting [even if not exactly surprising] yesterday.

I don't think there is a ZF left in town [1 dealer and 1 TSC store, but they each order several; the former I think requests two shipments with several each]. This is at least the second year of that! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

All kinds of RZTs left. I only know of one ZF60 [same class as the M50 in my mind - I still wish both were called ZF-Pros or Estate Tanks or something]; it hasn't sold yet, but $5500 is a large pricetag for TSC.

I don't think the dealer here orders M50s [at least one in Sioux Falls does though: don't know what's hot around there this year], which if going to 3 year financing anyway, I also like the logic of getting an M48; however if they sell as well as Gamble77 here has noted, I'm surprised they don't stock a few.

Barring the 50, the dealer has gone through I'd say at least one of every size [deck not engine] Tank; they only have one, an M54 [with industrial air cleaner /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif ], left on the lot.

Anyway, doesn't really tell much per se, but thought some would find it interesting reading. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif