Zforce 50

hbw912 · Jun 18, 2015

I have a Cub Cadet Zforce50 that will not start. When I agreed to work on it, I found that it hadn't run for over a year. Someone else had disassembled the controls on the rt side panel. I have been able to reassemble the unit enough to get it to crank, but not run.
I take for granted that I need to replace one neutral switch, as one lever needs to be in, and one needs to be out to crank. My dilema is that all the manuals I have seen refer to relays for control of crank and run. I know there are several safety switches that need to be open or closed to start and crank. I cannot find these relays. I have looked at the parts list, and there are none listed. When I look at the wiring diagrams, the relays are in the wiring. Any idea where they are located? I don't see any location listed in the manuals I have seen online. I removed the left cover panel, and there is only the neutral switch.

Coyote machine · Jun 18, 2015

Have you verified that the wiring is for your exact model and year of production? Can you trace the wiring from the battery throughout the tractor to see where it might have connected to any relays? If there are no connectors built into the harness then you're good to go to the next step.
Post back results.

hbw912 · Jun 18, 2015

As far as I can tell, the manuals are correct. I have gone thru the Cub Cadet site and used the proper model number. I don't see any serial number range on the drawings that would apply to a range limitation. The loom comes from under the plate that is the cover over the mechanical drives and belts. There are no sockets for the Bosch relays to which they refer.

Coyote machine · Jun 19, 2015

Assume for a minute that all of what you stated above is correct. Then why are you searching for relays that don't seem to be part of your rig? Am I missing something?

TBN Support · Jun 19, 2015

Hi and welcome to the forum! :welcome:

I am moving your thread over to the Cub Cadet section in case you still need more answers.

hbw912 · Jun 19, 2015

CatherineTBN said:
Hi and welcome to the forum! :welcome:

I am moving your thread over to the Cub Cadet section in case you still need more answers.

Where in the Cub Cadet section did I get moved to? I don't see it. Being new, I don't know how to navigate too well yet

hbw912 · Jun 19, 2015

I'm looking for relays, because the manual says they are there. I am looking for a cause for a no-start. problem. I am thinking that a safety switch is closing at a time when it is not supposed to be,and grounding the mag circuit. I am trying to back trace the circuit. If the manual I'm using is not the correct one, I will be chasing the wrong circuit, and the wrong switches. There is a redundant circuit for the shutdown, and I need the correct diagram to see where the ground points are. Have I covered everything you are missing?

hbw912 · Jun 19, 2015

OK Thanks

GBHRPS · Jun 19, 2015

hbw912,

You haven't stated, so I wonder if you are aware that the PTO must be off, the lap levers need to be in their outer parked position, the parking brake must be on, and someone needs to be in the seat for the unit to crank and run. If so, I'd be tracking each of those switches down to see if they are doing their job or are inoperative.

rcbe · Jun 20, 2015

OP - one other tip... somewhere on that machine there should be an ID decal/plate that carries the Full model number and s/n. Copy that info down, go to this website http://manuals.mtdproducts.com/mtd/Public.do , enter data and d/l pdf files of p/l and/or op manuals for that particular machine.
Should help in understanding just how the safety circuits function....

hbw912 · Jun 21, 2015

Thanks for the tip. I'll check the site

hbw912 · Jun 21, 2015

Thanks for the info. For some reason one lap lever is out and one is in for it to crank. I'm checking this out, I'm not sure if the wiring was messed with, or I have a bad switch.

BukitCase · Jun 22, 2015

I don't have the Zforce, I have an RZT50 Cub - but from my observations some of the safety switches, if not all, use a SPDT switch - since your machine was diddled with by someone else, it's entirely possible that ONE of your arm switches was re-connected to the NC (Normally Closed) push-on tab instead of the NO (Normally Open - that would explain why one arm needs to be OUT and the other one IN to get it to work.

I don't know your background so I may be explaining things you already know about - if so, just ignore those parts

SPDT stands for Single Pole, Double Throw - this type of switch has 3 connections - C is the Common, NO is NOT connected to C til you actuate the switch, and NC IS connected to C UNTIL you actuate the switch.

I would look at the switch on the WRONG arm - compare it to the other one, I'm betting you will find the wires on different tabs. IF so, change the WRONG one to match the GOOD one, and give it a try... Steve

hbw912 · Jun 22, 2015

Thanks for the reply Steve. I had figured there were NO and NC sides in the same switch on both arms. Following the diagrams at hand I found both circuits working the same and in tandem. I think the connection plugs are one-way, but I have to go back and recheck my findings. I started asking questions on this board, because I wasn't finding what the manual said was there. I wanted to make sure I was looking at the proper manual for my unit. There are many redundant safety circuits, and I'm trying to find the common circuit to ground that ties them all together. Then I can backtrace the branches from there.
I followed the tip from rcbe, and found the proper diagram for the unit I am working on. I can progress from here hopefully with positive results

hbw912 · Jun 22, 2015

rcbe, thank you. I went to the MTD site and got the proper diagram for my ZT50. I now see all the safety circuits without the relays. I can check the whole system now at once.

hbw912 · Jul 1, 2015

rcbe,
I was finally able to get some time to trace the safety circuits today. I am unable to find a repair manual that shows where to access the parking brake switch. That is the only switch I haven't been able to check, because I can't see how to get at it. The manual I have must be for a newer model, because the switch looks easier to access. I went to the MTD site, and all they have is a parts and operators manual. Do you have any idea where I can find a repair manual for that series Z50?
Thanks

rcbe · Jul 1, 2015

perhaps someone else can chime in, but about the only other idea is to try contacting the MTD service dept directly by phone and see if they can dig up something for you... you may hafta crack the purse on that, tho. Look for their phone # /Addy in yer owners manual.

hbw912 · Sep 22, 2015

I apologize for being away for so long. Duties on other machines and our Lion's Club yearly fair have prevented me from staying involved with this one. Can you tell me how to check the mag? I need to find out if it's any good or functioning properly

rcbe · Sep 23, 2015

if yer talking about the kohler engine's ignition system, find the engine's ID plate; get the model/type info, go to kohler's website and d/l both p/l and service manual for free. If you've got some other brand of engine, break out the billfold and do a google search - no freebies.