ZTR - need help deciding
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Thanks a ton for sharing your ZTR purchase history.... Sounds pretty similar to what I've been going through.
I've heard nothing but good from the major players and several of the not so major ones.
Here's my total cost (TC) breakdowns (not including maintenance of course):
1. Lesco (60",25HP, $5,999, Tax, 5%/3 yrs) TC = $6,958
Parts and Service are available in state, but approx 60 miles away. Excellent mower for the price, would need to finance on my equity line or credit union for about 5%.
2. Grasshopper (60",23HP,$6,700, NO TAX??, 1.9%/3 yrs) TC=$6,898
Heard nothing but excellent reviews from GH. Some question the 60" with 23HP. Great financing at 1.9%. Dealer doesn't charge out of state sales tax, so I'm not sure how I would handle that? If purchased from out of state, I probably won't have quite as friendly of service from my closest dealer.
3. Grasshopper (60", 25HP,$7,400, NO TAX??, 1.9%/3 yrs) TC=$7,618
Same as above. Is the extra 2 HP worth $700.
4. Dixie Chopper (60", 27HP,$7,200, TAX, 5%/3 yrs) TC=$8,351
A little high after tax and interest. FAST. Dealer is 4 miles from my house. He owns an auto service station and is a good mechanic, but just recently got into selling mowers. Not sure if he'll be selling mowers for the long haul, but I'm sure he'd always service whatever he sells. Very good mechanic and reputable.
My wallet is telling me to go for the Lesco or 23HP Grasshopper. My heart may be telling me to go for the DC but my heart has burned me a few times in the past.
Thanks again
I've heard nothing but good from the major players and several of the not so major ones.
Here's my total cost (TC) breakdowns (not including maintenance of course):
1. Lesco (60",25HP, $5,999, Tax, 5%/3 yrs) TC = $6,958
Parts and Service are available in state, but approx 60 miles away. Excellent mower for the price, would need to finance on my equity line or credit union for about 5%.
2. Grasshopper (60",23HP,$6,700, NO TAX??, 1.9%/3 yrs) TC=$6,898
Heard nothing but excellent reviews from GH. Some question the 60" with 23HP. Great financing at 1.9%. Dealer doesn't charge out of state sales tax, so I'm not sure how I would handle that? If purchased from out of state, I probably won't have quite as friendly of service from my closest dealer.
3. Grasshopper (60", 25HP,$7,400, NO TAX??, 1.9%/3 yrs) TC=$7,618
Same as above. Is the extra 2 HP worth $700.
4. Dixie Chopper (60", 27HP,$7,200, TAX, 5%/3 yrs) TC=$8,351
A little high after tax and interest. FAST. Dealer is 4 miles from my house. He owns an auto service station and is a good mechanic, but just recently got into selling mowers. Not sure if he'll be selling mowers for the long haul, but I'm sure he'd always service whatever he sells. Very good mechanic and reputable.
My wallet is telling me to go for the Lesco or 23HP Grasshopper. My heart may be telling me to go for the DC but my heart has burned me a few times in the past.
Thanks again
Dargo
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I just bought a 2nd ZTR to help mow my 12 acre yard. I have a 5 or 6 year old diesel powered front mount Grasshopper that has been great. My impatience is the only reason I didn't get another Grasshopper this last weekend when I purchased. Nobody local had a front mount Grasshopper like I wanted; they were sold out and waiting for new units to arrive.
Some people are probably tired of me posting my experience, but I did have 5 different ZTR mowers at my property and test drove (mowing with them of course) in my yard. Honestly most all are pretty good that I tried. I did start out wanting to spend only around 3K for my 2nd unit. As someone correctly pointed out in a thread I had about buying a 2nd unit, that price range puts you in "no man's land" for a ZTR.
After having a quality front mount diesel Grasshopper with their G2 hydraulics, all the units that were priced from 3 to 4k looked like a total waste of money for me. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif No way would I have been happy with one of those. Also, there only seems to be one model that has experienced a noticable reliability problem, but they still sell well because they look pretty, and they have a cool name. I won't go there, because feelings get hurt and tempers flare.
Anyway, I had no idea how much better a front mount mower rides compared to a mid mount ZTR. I really didn't. Although every mid mount ZTR I brought home had a faster ground speed than my old Grasshopper, there was no way I could have mowed faster with them. I've taken too many blind side tackles and raced motocross for too many years to be able to take that kind of beating at my age now.
I don't want to sound like I have stock in them, or that I'm really trying to sell product for them, but the Ferris ZTR's with suspension made a huge difference in the ride in my yard. Granted, many people may have a yard that is smoother than me, and it wouldn't make any difference. After using the Grasshopper for years, I really didn't think that I had that rough of a yard, but I do.
If you have not used the mowers in your yard that you are considering, I highly recommend you do. I'm embarrassed to say, but the dealer who first offered me a demo (and got me to think about using the mower I was considering in my own yard) actually lost the sale because his mower beat the tar out of me. He had great built products and was reasonable with his pricing, but I just couldn't handle the ride.
So, based on my experience (and a couple thousand hours in the seat of a ZTR over the years), I'd highly recommend trying out what you want to buy in your own yard. If you do some research, you will find the one manufacturer who has reliablity issues. Otherwise, buy what works for you in your yard. And, yes, I'm still very well pleased with my Grasshopper and only time will tell if the decent riding 3000 series Ferris mid mount ZTR will prove to be as good for me.
Some people are probably tired of me posting my experience, but I did have 5 different ZTR mowers at my property and test drove (mowing with them of course) in my yard. Honestly most all are pretty good that I tried. I did start out wanting to spend only around 3K for my 2nd unit. As someone correctly pointed out in a thread I had about buying a 2nd unit, that price range puts you in "no man's land" for a ZTR.
After having a quality front mount diesel Grasshopper with their G2 hydraulics, all the units that were priced from 3 to 4k looked like a total waste of money for me. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif No way would I have been happy with one of those. Also, there only seems to be one model that has experienced a noticable reliability problem, but they still sell well because they look pretty, and they have a cool name. I won't go there, because feelings get hurt and tempers flare.
Anyway, I had no idea how much better a front mount mower rides compared to a mid mount ZTR. I really didn't. Although every mid mount ZTR I brought home had a faster ground speed than my old Grasshopper, there was no way I could have mowed faster with them. I've taken too many blind side tackles and raced motocross for too many years to be able to take that kind of beating at my age now.
I don't want to sound like I have stock in them, or that I'm really trying to sell product for them, but the Ferris ZTR's with suspension made a huge difference in the ride in my yard. Granted, many people may have a yard that is smoother than me, and it wouldn't make any difference. After using the Grasshopper for years, I really didn't think that I had that rough of a yard, but I do.
If you have not used the mowers in your yard that you are considering, I highly recommend you do. I'm embarrassed to say, but the dealer who first offered me a demo (and got me to think about using the mower I was considering in my own yard) actually lost the sale because his mower beat the tar out of me. He had great built products and was reasonable with his pricing, but I just couldn't handle the ride.
So, based on my experience (and a couple thousand hours in the seat of a ZTR over the years), I'd highly recommend trying out what you want to buy in your own yard. If you do some research, you will find the one manufacturer who has reliablity issues. Otherwise, buy what works for you in your yard. And, yes, I'm still very well pleased with my Grasshopper and only time will tell if the decent riding 3000 series Ferris mid mount ZTR will prove to be as good for me.
Spiffy
Veteran Member
Hello,
I think Gamle and Dargo touched on an interesting point and it agrees with what I see up this way: GH front mounts are incredible machines [the FIL has one, and I drove another one too, but didn't like $5500 for a well used 618]. It looks like you're looking at all mids; so while I have no doubt that GH is still great quality, I don't see a $1000 advantage (with HP ratings these day, more HP seems to be always better, but I doubt the 23HP is an issue).
The DC I don't know anything about, but here's the question I have to ask: "why does the heart say DC" certain feel that just fits you?; confidence in the dealer? (Neither a bad reason, but just have to consider how much the reason is worth to you).
Finally, judging from what you and Nasty have said about the Lesco being identical to the Tank; I think you'll have a lot of bang for the buck. The Tanks are sure nice units (though, I wound up with a Snapper on a "demo model" deal).
Sounds like a lot of good choices!
I think Gamle and Dargo touched on an interesting point and it agrees with what I see up this way: GH front mounts are incredible machines [the FIL has one, and I drove another one too, but didn't like $5500 for a well used 618]. It looks like you're looking at all mids; so while I have no doubt that GH is still great quality, I don't see a $1000 advantage (with HP ratings these day, more HP seems to be always better, but I doubt the 23HP is an issue).
The DC I don't know anything about, but here's the question I have to ask: "why does the heart say DC" certain feel that just fits you?; confidence in the dealer? (Neither a bad reason, but just have to consider how much the reason is worth to you).
Finally, judging from what you and Nasty have said about the Lesco being identical to the Tank; I think you'll have a lot of bang for the buck. The Tanks are sure nice units (though, I wound up with a Snapper on a "demo model" deal).
Sounds like a lot of good choices!
BKB
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The only reason the heart tells me Dixie is because of the local dealer. He's a good guy and I know he'd treat me right when I need any service, but I don't think it's worth the extra $$.
I would say I'm now leaning toward the Lesco and the Grasshopper 223/61. With the financing and tax issues, they are going to cost me almost exactly the same. I have inspected the Lesco vs the Tank and can not tell any difference. I'll try to post a picture below of the Lesco side by side with the Tank for you to see.
I appreciate everyone's input.
I would say I'm now leaning toward the Lesco and the Grasshopper 223/61. With the financing and tax issues, they are going to cost me almost exactly the same. I have inspected the Lesco vs the Tank and can not tell any difference. I'll try to post a picture below of the Lesco side by side with the Tank for you to see.
I appreciate everyone's input.
bigtractor
Silver Member
There are alot of points to study on a ZTR.
One that I us is stand in front of it and see how fasteners you see. Get one that is clean and smooth not all bolted together.
The cleanest I see is a Hustler.
One that I us is stand in front of it and see how fasteners you see. Get one that is clean and smooth not all bolted together.
The cleanest I see is a Hustler.
Jagmandave
Veteran Member
What, no cupholder on either one of these? Forget it! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I also really liked the Dixie, and came very close to buying one, but what led me to Exmark was a better ride, even tho not quite as fast as the Dixie, I can't run it full speed anyway, and the fact that the deck on the Exmark stood out about 6" on the left, allowing me to mow close to trees and other objects without rubbing the tire as I went around. In other words, for my property, the Exmark was the better choice. You should follow other's advice, and try any that you're seriously considering on your property first, then choose the one you like the best. 5 years from now, you won't even remember the extra $ you spent for the "right" one.
I also really liked the Dixie, and came very close to buying one, but what led me to Exmark was a better ride, even tho not quite as fast as the Dixie, I can't run it full speed anyway, and the fact that the deck on the Exmark stood out about 6" on the left, allowing me to mow close to trees and other objects without rubbing the tire as I went around. In other words, for my property, the Exmark was the better choice. You should follow other's advice, and try any that you're seriously considering on your property first, then choose the one you like the best. 5 years from now, you won't even remember the extra $ you spent for the "right" one.
Spiffy
Veteran Member
Your Lesco picture looks a lot like the ones Nasty posted; if there are differences from the Tank, I can't tell; further, I'd think the confusion of putting in a different grade of bearings or something like that would cost as much as the savings. I'd say it's a safe assumption the difference is mostly paint.
As far as service, it really varies from dealer to dealer whether they care where you bought it [all things being equal and "financially close" I will give a local dealer the benifit of the doubt]. Since the markup on parts is often greater than the machine many are quite happy to service anything they're familiar with [i.e. a CC dealer may like to work on your Lesco or the local GH dealer may not care where you got it]. I don't know how the 3 year financing on the Tanks came out for you either.
Don't know if that adds or subtracts from your confusion, but I think you have picked some very good machines to chose from.
As far as service, it really varies from dealer to dealer whether they care where you bought it [all things being equal and "financially close" I will give a local dealer the benifit of the doubt]. Since the markup on parts is often greater than the machine many are quite happy to service anything they're familiar with [i.e. a CC dealer may like to work on your Lesco or the local GH dealer may not care where you got it]. I don't know how the 3 year financing on the Tanks came out for you either.
Don't know if that adds or subtracts from your confusion, but I think you have picked some very good machines to chose from.
BKB
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That's kind of what I've heard too on the service issues. A friend of mine asked one of the local dealers about this point blank and the dealer/service man said that he has no problem working on equipment purchased somewhere else with one exception. That being if the machine is still under warranty, he really doesn't make enough to make it worth his while if you didn't purchase it from him. Don't know how true this really is, but it does worry me a little (but not that much). Hopefully I won't need anything done under warranty.
Anyway, I made my decision after a ton of thought and research. It was very difficult due to all the AWESOME machines out there. In the end, I decided to get the Grasshopper 227-61. It turned out that the larger GH was actually 27HP not 25HP, so I decided to go for the upgrade for an extra $650. I think I'll be much happier with the extra HP with the 61" cut.
In the end, I think the name brand of Grasshopper sold me a little over the Lesco. I personally have NO problem with the Lesco, but I was recently burned with an attempt to trade in my 1999 TAFE DI-35 utility tractor/loader. It's a massey clone but the value on this thing is not very good compared to what I paid for it. It's a different situation, but I think the GH might hold it's resale value a little better than the Lesco. Of course I have no intention of selling this thing.
I picked it up today and it's in my garage waiting on some decent weather. I had to take a couple of swipes across the yard just to see how it would perform in our extremely wet conditions and I was quite impressed. I had the dealer fill the turfs and I think it was a wise move because I didn't even spin a tire going down hill up hill side to side (not terribly steep, but my entire property is sloping).
Thanks EVERYONE for your input. All the advise was extremely valuable! I'm sure I would have been very happy with at least 10-12 different machines, but I'm glad I have the Grasshopper now.
Hopefully I'll be able to cut my grass soon with it though since it's getting pretty high and the rain doesn't seem to want to let up.
-Brian
Anyway, I made my decision after a ton of thought and research. It was very difficult due to all the AWESOME machines out there. In the end, I decided to get the Grasshopper 227-61. It turned out that the larger GH was actually 27HP not 25HP, so I decided to go for the upgrade for an extra $650. I think I'll be much happier with the extra HP with the 61" cut.
In the end, I think the name brand of Grasshopper sold me a little over the Lesco. I personally have NO problem with the Lesco, but I was recently burned with an attempt to trade in my 1999 TAFE DI-35 utility tractor/loader. It's a massey clone but the value on this thing is not very good compared to what I paid for it. It's a different situation, but I think the GH might hold it's resale value a little better than the Lesco. Of course I have no intention of selling this thing.
I picked it up today and it's in my garage waiting on some decent weather. I had to take a couple of swipes across the yard just to see how it would perform in our extremely wet conditions and I was quite impressed. I had the dealer fill the turfs and I think it was a wise move because I didn't even spin a tire going down hill up hill side to side (not terribly steep, but my entire property is sloping).
Thanks EVERYONE for your input. All the advise was extremely valuable! I'm sure I would have been very happy with at least 10-12 different machines, but I'm glad I have the Grasshopper now.
Hopefully I'll be able to cut my grass soon with it though since it's getting pretty high and the rain doesn't seem to want to let up.
-Brian
Dargo
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I'm sort of tagging this post on the end of this thread knowing that it won't receive a lot of views. After spending hours and hours researching and test driving ZTR's a week ago, I'd purchased the Ferris IS 3000. I no longer have that mower. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Before anyone thinks that there is a problem with the Ferris mowers, I'll tell you that there isn't. The issue is something different. From hundreds of hours, well, actually thousands, of seat time in a ZTR, I have found that the front mount mowers flat out are better at mowing my lawn than a mid mount mower. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I thought that with the suspension on the Ferris, which made the ride bearable, that I would like a mid mount ZTR. Afterall, that is what you see most of out mowing.
It was really a lesson to me to learn that the mid mount mowers simply are not as productive if you have obsticles to mow around. You cannot get as close to things, and you leave a much larger area that needs to be trimmed in corners. The final blow for me was trying to mow around a lake with a mid mount ZTR. A word of advice; don't. With a front mount Grasshopper, I had zero, zip, nada, trimming to do around my lake. With a mid mount mower, I had about 1000 feet of 1' wide minimum trimming to do. Trying to get any closer to a lake will get you wet! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Not once. Not twice, but three times I stuck the mid mount ZTR in the lake!! It was never bad, but each time I had to shut everything off, walk to my barn, get my tractor and a snatch strap, and pull the ZTR out from where it was stuck.
Combine that with taking considerbly more time to mow around obsticles and leaving more area to trim in corners spelled doom for my mid mount mower aspirations. My new Grasshopper front mount mower will arrive today. This will put two Grasshoppers in my stable of mowers. As much as I tried to save money and go with a less expensive mid mount mower and not fork out the cash for another Grasshopper, I found that having used a front mount mower (and seeing the productivity possible with it), I just can't justify going to a mid mount.
The mid mount mowers will work just fine if you have a relatively smooth lawn, and you do not have a lot of obsticles to mow around, and if you don't have a lake. As a matter of fact, the ground speed of the mid mount mower was 2mph faster than the front mount. However, due to the rougher ride, even with suspension, I could not mow any faster on my lawn with the mid mount. I just thought I'd throw out my unfortunate experience so anyone debating between a front mount and a mid mount will know what the actual difference is in performance. (at my expense)
The only difference between a mid mount ZTR mower and a lawn tractor is speed and the turning radius. A front mount mower has those advantages over a lawn tractor, plus it adds a considerable amount more accessability to areas that cannot be reached with the other mowers. This was a fairly expensive lesson for me to learn. I had every intention in the world of buying a mid mount ZTR. After using a front mount for years, I found the difference between a mid mount and a front mount to be as big as the difference between a lawn tractor and a ZTR. Each step makes a difference. Unfortunately, each step costs more money. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Now that I search my memory, I've never noticed a golf course using anything but front mount mowers. Some are reel type, but still front mount. Now I know why. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Before anyone thinks that there is a problem with the Ferris mowers, I'll tell you that there isn't. The issue is something different. From hundreds of hours, well, actually thousands, of seat time in a ZTR, I have found that the front mount mowers flat out are better at mowing my lawn than a mid mount mower. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I thought that with the suspension on the Ferris, which made the ride bearable, that I would like a mid mount ZTR. Afterall, that is what you see most of out mowing.
It was really a lesson to me to learn that the mid mount mowers simply are not as productive if you have obsticles to mow around. You cannot get as close to things, and you leave a much larger area that needs to be trimmed in corners. The final blow for me was trying to mow around a lake with a mid mount ZTR. A word of advice; don't. With a front mount Grasshopper, I had zero, zip, nada, trimming to do around my lake. With a mid mount mower, I had about 1000 feet of 1' wide minimum trimming to do. Trying to get any closer to a lake will get you wet! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Not once. Not twice, but three times I stuck the mid mount ZTR in the lake!! It was never bad, but each time I had to shut everything off, walk to my barn, get my tractor and a snatch strap, and pull the ZTR out from where it was stuck.
Combine that with taking considerbly more time to mow around obsticles and leaving more area to trim in corners spelled doom for my mid mount mower aspirations. My new Grasshopper front mount mower will arrive today. This will put two Grasshoppers in my stable of mowers. As much as I tried to save money and go with a less expensive mid mount mower and not fork out the cash for another Grasshopper, I found that having used a front mount mower (and seeing the productivity possible with it), I just can't justify going to a mid mount.
The mid mount mowers will work just fine if you have a relatively smooth lawn, and you do not have a lot of obsticles to mow around, and if you don't have a lake. As a matter of fact, the ground speed of the mid mount mower was 2mph faster than the front mount. However, due to the rougher ride, even with suspension, I could not mow any faster on my lawn with the mid mount. I just thought I'd throw out my unfortunate experience so anyone debating between a front mount and a mid mount will know what the actual difference is in performance. (at my expense)
The only difference between a mid mount ZTR mower and a lawn tractor is speed and the turning radius. A front mount mower has those advantages over a lawn tractor, plus it adds a considerable amount more accessability to areas that cannot be reached with the other mowers. This was a fairly expensive lesson for me to learn. I had every intention in the world of buying a mid mount ZTR. After using a front mount for years, I found the difference between a mid mount and a front mount to be as big as the difference between a lawn tractor and a ZTR. Each step makes a difference. Unfortunately, each step costs more money. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Now that I search my memory, I've never noticed a golf course using anything but front mount mowers. Some are reel type, but still front mount. Now I know why. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif