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  1. #1
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    Started with a B-20 Kubota, then B2910, now L2800

    Default L2800-L3400 PTO Making the right choice

    I did alot of thinking whether I should make this post about my experience with my tractor and the problems that I have experienced. First, this is not a kubota bashing thread and if you think it is just go to the next thread and forget this one. I have made a few post about the Pto system on my L2800 and my problems I have had earlier. My tractor has 212 hours and I am guessing around 20 hours of Pto use. Twice now the system has failed while using a 50" Land Pride forward rotating roto tiller. Both times Kubota has fixed it under warranty. The basic warranty is about to expire on the tractor and I was wanting to know if this repair would be covered under the powertrain warranty. My dealer said they didn't know for sure and would check into it. I never got a answer, but could tell that they thought it wouldn't be covered under it. They said that the field Rep from Columbus was coming to their shop Thursday and if I would like to meet with him I could and he could give me some answers to the two question that I had, which were why am I having PTO problems and what the powertrain warranty covers. I do use my tractor more than the average home owner. I use it in my business to install new lawns, but still the tractor only has 212 hours on it and very little PTO time. I had emailed Kubota several times wanting this information, without any responce.
    I get a call this morning from the Rep and he said he heard about my problems with my tractor and would like to help me out if he could. He informed me that the first time the PTO went out that it was fixed with a different design type of PTO locking cams and I shouldn't be having problems. He said the cams were not changed much except a sharper 90 deree angle was milled in the lugs that lock up. Well these cams didn't hold up for me and they went out with around 20 hours use. My first two Kubotas,B-20 and B2910 both had over 3000 hours time and neither ever gave me PTO problem. I had bad feeling about the L2800 and I know it will happen a third time if I continued using the tiller, but I have no choice I have to
    The Rep told me that clutch discs and PTO disc were not covered under the powertrain warranty. My warranty guide does say that about clutch disc but nothing about the PTO. It does say it covers anything inclosed in the transmission housing except cluth discs. You can interpret that however you like.
    I told him if it wasn't covered I will have to do somthing because this is not an easy repair. The tractor has to be split and it will be an expensive repair that I will not be willing to pay. I ask him why it was happening and here is his words. Kubota has sold several of the L2800 and L3400 tractors and have had very few problems with the PTO's. He said that I probably use my tractor more that the average person with the type of work I do with it and I agreed with him, but still that didn't answer my question of why the problems. I found out that Kubota makes different tractors for different type of applications and that I made the wrong choice in tractors. I didn't do any research before purchasing the L2800, I thought if it said Kubot that you were getting the best and most dependable tractor out there. I was wrong in that thinking. I have proof that Kubota does make an excellent and dependable tractor from my first two that preformed with no problems at all. I was lucky in making the right choice the first two times. As we were talking in the dealers show room there was Kubota lititure there on the wall and I got the one advertising the L28000 and there it was showing three different sizes of roto tillers that would work with the tractor. I was smiling when when I ask him if Kubota used ruber tines on their tillers, Land pride didn't.
    He gave me his therory of why the roto tiller was giving me problems. It is alot harder on the PTO and places much more torque on the system. When the PTO is engaged on the L2800 and L3400 tractors it is done so by two slant cams with two locking lugs that connect that powers up the out put shaft. One of the cams is spring loaded. The springs pressure pushing the one cam into the other is what keeps the two cams engaged. He said the shock from the tiller is causing it to probably increase and decrease the amount of torque causing, not a constant amout of spring torque that will hold the two cams together and that without it that the two cams are overnning their locking lugs. I agreed with him , but ask why would Kubota do this. They have different types of PTO's that do work with a roto tiller why not use it in all there tractors. He said they have used this type of PTO systems in several previous tractors and didn't have a problem. I ask if the previous models had an over running clutch like my L2800 he said no they didn't. All L2800 and L3400 owners have heard the clacking of the overrunning clutch. This noise is made by the two locking cams that are still held together by the spring, but tuning in opposite direction. I ask him about the oil level in the hydro transmission recall and if it had anything to do about PTO problems, he no it was to quiet the clacking noise. I told him that it was probably used for lubrication, as before it was metal to metal when the cams were clacking and now that they were imersed in oil it had to help wear on the cams. He never agreed or disagreed.
    I just so happened to have my trusty didgital camera while there and no matter how long it takes me to figgure it out I will get the pictures posted so you all can decide on this PTO system. I thought that the locking lugs would have been cleanly sheared off I was wrong. The damage to the lugs is noticable but not near what I thought it would be. It doesn't take much to put the PTO out of opperating condition and requires the tractor to be split . I think the service manager said the labor guide gave 16 hours of time for the repair. While looking at the close up picture look at the damage where it makes the 90 degree and notice that it's not much, but when I engage the PTO with the condition of these cams all that it would do is clash and not mesh up. I could hold the PTO output shaft on the rear of the tractor and it would stop turning.
    I am out of luck and found at that I made the wrong choice in tractors. Like I said at first I am not bashing Kubota, but telling my experience that I had with my L2800. I still think Kubota makes the best compact tractor out there, but do your research and make wise choices.
    The best I have found at two of the three Kubota dealers that are close is they both want 5000.00 and my L2800 for a B3030. I am getting ready for a price from the dealer where it all started at.
    I am not much of a typer and spelling was not my thing in school. It has taken me about an hour of time to post this information, but I hope that it will help you in deciding on which Kubota to buy. I am sorry for such a long winded post and not the best feedback for Kubota, but I wish it was posted two years go when I was trying to decide on which tractor to buy, it would have saved me $5000.00
    I am having problems posting the pictures. If someone can do it I will email them to you, if not I will keep on trying.

  2. #2
    Silver Member
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    Started with a B-20 Kubota, then B2910, now L2800

    Default Re: L2800-L3400 PTO Making the right choice

    I hope this works, but here are some pictures of the damaged PTO locking cams and pressure spring that came out of my L2800 the second time. These cams are about the diameter of a Coke can. The last picture is a close up of one of the two lugs that when meshed together transfer power to the output shaft that powers your implemnt. Theres not that much damage to it, just enough that the cams will not stay locked and enough to wipe out the use of the PTO.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  3. #3
    Elite Member JC-jetro's Avatar
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    Kansas
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    Ford 1700, Kubota MX-4700

    Default Re: L2800-L3400 PTO Making the right choice

    Quote Originally Posted by 8226hamer
    I did alot of thinking whether I should make this post about my experience with my tractor and the problems that I have experienced. First, this is not a kubota bashing thread and if you think it is just go to the next thread and forget this one.

    Thank you sir. I appreciate your post and your information. I was also looking at L3400 and L4400 with more leaning toward L4400 for the fact it has hydraulic independent clutch for the PTO. it does not have a double stage clutch like 3400 or transmission driven with internal overrunning clutch like L2800.


    Good luck on your next purchase


    by the way, I just noticed you posted the pic. Great pics and very informative. I think there may be shock loading involved here. Did you fully clutch befor you engaged the PTO cam? if you did, then may be the spring presure keeps the cams from fully engaging and it jumps the tooth since it does not have much of a gripping edge. At any rate, I would think they would put a more robust coupler of sort, may be with square peg same as a closed coupled pump and motor to remove the slippage chance. Considering the equipment( roto tiller) you use, it most likely has slip clutch or a shear pin. did you have a slip clutch on your tiller? and did you verify it would slip at a shock load? if your tiller clutch did not slip, then the PTO cam experiences sever shock load. That may be the cuase of your problem.
    Ford 1700, 2wd.
    Kubota MX-4700DT, Gear transmission with LA 884 loader, Q/A and HD bucket.
    60" Woods Rotary Cutter, home made (3-pt boom and a Row Hipper) ,King Kutter( 5 ft Tiller,Middle Buster,Single Row Cultivator,Carry-all, 5 ft blade, 6 ft Landscaping Rake ,30" Dirt Scoop and a 4'x4' Drag Harrow)

  4. #4
    Silver Member
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    Started with a B-20 Kubota, then B2910, now L2800

    Default Re: L2800-L3400 PTO Making the right choice

    Quote Originally Posted by JC-jetro
    Thank you sir. I appreciate your post and your information. I was also looking at L3400 and L4400 with more leaning toward L4400 for the fact it has hydraulic independent clutch for the PTO. it does not have a double stage clutch like 3400 or transmission driven with internal overrunning clutch like L2800.


    Good luck on your next purchase


    by the way, I just noticed you posted the pic. Great pics and very informative. I think there may be shock loading involved here. Did you fully clutch befor you engaged the PTO cam? if you did, then may be the spring presure keeps the cams from fully engaging and it jumps the tooth since it does not have much of a gripping edge. At any rate, I would think they would put a more robust coupler of sort, may be with square peg same as a closed coupled pump and motor to remove the slippage chance. Considering the equipment( roto tiller) you use, it most likely has slip clutch or a shear pin. did you have a slip clutch on your tiller? and did you verify it would slip at a shock load? if your tiller clutch did not slip, then the PTO cam experiences sever shock load. That may be the cuase of your problem.
    When I engage the Pto on the L2800 I always did it at idle and then released the clutch. After it was engage and the tiller turning, I would then throttle it up to the propper RPMs and start tilling. To disengage it I would just flip the lever with the pto turning at the same RPM's as I was running while tilling and I would then have to push the clutch in before it would disengage. If you decrease the RPMs the overrunning clutch starts making the loud clacking noise until the implement and the PTO RPM's are the same. Most of the time, and I don't think this should be, but I would sometimes have to push the clutch is as many as 5 times before the PTO would disengage. The dealer adjusted and lubed the cable that is used with this type of PTO to engage and disengage the PTO and it helped it, but it started doing it again in a couple weeks. The Rep I talked to today told me that tension has to be released from the implement to the locking cams before the cams will disengage alowing the cams to seperate. I don't think this is good at all. Once I was using it to till the front yard of a lawn install I was puttng in and they had put in a irrigation system and the PVC pipe that is used to hook to the sprinkler heads were only burried about 4" deep. I got into a section of pipe and it was quickly wrapped arround the tillers tines, it pulled close to 40' of the line up out of the ground. I guess I paniced when this happened. I fliped the PTO lever and it stayed engaged ripping the line out. I pushed the clutch in several times trying to get it to disengage, but the only way I could get it to do so was to shut the tractor off and after about an hour of pulling and cutting the line from around the tines on the tiller could I get it to finally to disengage. I was glad it was water line instead of an arm or leg. Having to release the tension of the implement to the cams and shoving the clutch is several time before the PTO will disengage seems should be a safety consern. Alot of damage can be done to what ever is caught in the PTO and that is causing this tension that will not let the PTO to disengage.

    AS far as the tiller, It's a series 1500 Land Pride with forward rotating tines and it does have a slip clutch It was used on my old B2910 that had over 3000 hour of running time and probably a 1000 of those hours was using the PTO running the tiller or my 4' bush hog and it never seen any down time with PTO problems and it was used to do the same kind of work of putting in lawns.


    If you are going to be using your new tractor with ground engaging PTO driven implements, I would go for the independent PTO system on the L4400. If not you will be just like me and looking for a new tractor when either you get close to 1500 hours on the tractor or your 24 month basic warranty is about up.

  5. #5
    Veteran Member bandit67's Avatar
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    Foothills, Colorado
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    B3000 HSDCC

    Default Re: L2800-L3400 PTO Making the right choice

    Well, this is a bit discouraging, as I have sold my subcompact and have started to look at the L3400 over the B3030. I have a Landpride 1550 tiller that I put a good 20-30 hours on with my little 24hp subcompact. At least 10 hours of that was working it in hard-packed clay (that stuff was like concrete).

    I did have one problem where I though the internal gears blew up at one point and we thought we were going to have to crack the case, but it turned out to be a PTO link adjustment that had loosened with all the banging around, so with that time on that tiller on my little sub, it handled it just fine.

    I certainly would expect an L3400 to handle that same tiller like it was nothing. Now I'm wondering if I need to look at something else. I guess there's a reason for it being similarly priced to the smaller B3030, and quite a bit less than the L3430 - looks like the price difference may be more than just for the bells and whistles.
    2012 Kubota B3000, block heater, filled rears, rear wheel spacers, fender extensions, LA403 w/60" bucket, BH77 w/12" bucket & mechanical thumb, Kubota pin-type QA, Kubota forks, Caroni TM1600 flail, Buhler Allied YC6010 3pt blower, Meyer 72" FEL mounted plow, Midwest LR2072 rake



    Previous machines:

    2008 Kubota B3030 (Open Station), LA403, BH75, 4 - 55w halogen front & rear ROPS mounted worklights with L39 dash switches
    2004 Case NH DX24E Subcompact

    Kubotas from Barlow's

  6. #6
    Veteran Member ccsial's Avatar
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    (Kuboto L3400) (Ford 1910 4WD w/FEL) (Deere X748SE) All bought new

    Default Re: L2800-L3400 PTO Making the right choice

    I do agree with the kubota Rep. I didn't realize how the PTO worked when I got the L3400 either. The problem is that the Over running clutch and engagement clutch are one in the same. I think that the tiller causes chatter that hammers the slant cams (Kuboto term) to death.

    I have 130 hours, most mowing and rest snow blowing and no trouble yet. If the PTO fails though, I'll trade the tractor for an independent PTO model. I'd but a new 1910 in a heartbeat. I don't care for the new NH though.

    My old Ford 1910 has handled my 60 inch Howard J rototiller for years with no trouble. It still pulls that duty. The L3400 will never see the tiller.

    You need a different tractor.
    Kubota L3400-HST, Ford 1910-Gear FEL, John Deere X748SE

  7. #7
    Gold Member
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    Oklahoma
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    2006 Kubota L2800 HST

    Default Re: L2800-L3400 PTO Making the right choice

    My problem with the L2800 PTO was the cable from the selector to the lever on the transmission housing. The cable got stuck and would not turn the PTO off, (another poor design), it looks like if the cable is not adjusted correctly the PTO will not engage correctly or all the way.

    Now I am concerned about my 5 foot rotary mower that can take lot of abuse hitting stumps, dirt, branches, rock etc. looks to me like that would be as hard as a tiller. If it fails I will replace the tractor. My 8N had an external overunning clutch that lasted 15 years, when it failed it cost me $60 to replace. I was hoping the kubota was better than a 1948 8N.
    Marcussen
    Kubota L2800 HST
    Kubota LA463 FEL
    Woods GB60 Box blade
    Woods Brushbull BB60 (Rotary mower)
    535 hours

  8. #8
    Veteran Member ccsial's Avatar
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    (Kuboto L3400) (Ford 1910 4WD w/FEL) (Deere X748SE) All bought new

    Default Re: L2800-L3400 PTO Making the right choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcussen
    Now I am concerned about my 5 foot rotary mower that can take lot of abuse hitting stumps, dirt, branches, rock etc. looks to me like that would be as hard as a tiller.
    The rotary cutter has more inertia and runs faster that the tiller blades so you may be OK.
    Kubota L3400-HST, Ford 1910-Gear FEL, John Deere X748SE

  9. #9
    Silver Member
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    Started with a B-20 Kubota, then B2910, now L2800

    Default Re: L2800-L3400 PTO Making the right choice

    Quote Originally Posted by ccsial
    I do agree with the kubota Rep. I didn't realize how the PTO worked when I got the L3400 either. The problem is that the Over running clutch and engagement clutch are one in the same. I think that the tiller causes chatter that hammers the slant cams (Kuboto term) to death.

    I have 130 hours, most mowing and rest snow blowing and no trouble yet. If the PTO fails though, I'll trade the tractor for an independent PTO model. I'd but a new 1910 in a heartbeat. I don't care for the new NH though.

    My old Ford 1910 has handled my 60 inch Howard J rototiller for years with no trouble. It still pulls that duty. The L3400 will never see the tiller.

    You need a different tractor.
    You are right about the slant camns and the overunnning clutch as being the same. When they turn one way they will mesh together and lock giving the PTO output shaft power. When you suddenly decrease your throttle and the Pto is engaged it turns into an "overrunning " clutch and that when you get the nasty clacking sound. Every time it does this it has to be doing some kind of damage to the cams. I think thats why Kubota came out with the Hydro oil increase level campaign that imersed the cams in oil hoping some lubrication would prevent wear to the cams-clutch and preventing these problems. You can see in the last picture that it really don't take much to put the PTO out of commission. Probably jumping out one time and it rounds the 90 degree angle on the cams and then it's done. The second time mine went out there was no catching and holding for awhile. The first time it didn't hold the PTO was done and the sound it made was exactly the same sound that the overrunning clutch makes, but it is constant and power to the tiller quit. If you can I would never let the overrunning clutch start clacking because its is doing damage to the cams. It may be protecting the transmission as it is advertised to be doing, but it is hurting the PTO. I hate to say this, but In time I think all Kubotas with this system will have problems unless you never use the PTO, or let the overrunning clutch do it's clacking. My problem I was told could be that I use my PTO more the the average person who only uses it to till his garden once every Spring. I didn't think me using the tractor to earn a living would have any bearing on the PTO.

  10. #10
    Silver Member
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    Started with a B-20 Kubota, then B2910, now L2800

    Default Re: L2800-L3400 PTO Making the right choice

    Quote Originally Posted by ccsial
    The rotary cutter has more inertia and runs faster that the tiller blades so you may be OK.
    Untill he hits a stump, or other large object a few times.

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