2007 Tundra vs F250 5.4

[voltar0675]

Owned a 99 F-250, V-10, 4X4, crewcab, short bed with 3.73 rearend with auto. Got 10 to 12 highway and about 8 - 10 city consistently. Chipped it with a Diablo performance chip, K&N cool air induction, and Flowmaster mufflers. Best mileage after mods was 14 on highway (on rare occasions), but usually got around 12 or 13. Dropped to about 8 mpg pulling my 4,000 pound bass boat and trailer. Loved the truck. It was big and roomy and great on the highway and the only trouble I ever had with it during the 7 years I owned it was a speed sensors going out on one of the rear wheels. In December of 2005 I bought a Mahindra 5500 4wd tractor with fel. Have a 1,300 lb tree shear with guard attached to the 3 point. Tow it with a 20 foot Trailer with tool box. Trailer and tractor weigh approx 13,000 pounds. Have weight distribution hitch and trailer brakes on both axles. My V-10 struggled towing this load. Truck loaded with me, full tank and about 400 pounds of equipment, fuel, clothing and bed cap put the truck over 7,700 pounds (I weigh 250 pounds). It took a while to get the truck up to highway speed and on a moderate incline at highway speed the truck would drop 15 to 20 mph. Mpg dropped to about 6 mpg towing this load. Sold my V-10 and bought a 5.9 Dodge cummins, crew cab, 4X4 shortbed with 3.73. The cummins not only pulls this load without difficulty but it will easily accelerate on fairly steep inclines. I get consistently 19.1 to 19.5 empty on the highway, and 12 to 14 towing this load (depending on whether or not I keep my foot out of the skinny pedal...) I like the performance of the cummins but am a little leery of the Dodge. I've always been a Ford or GM man but was scared of the newer Ford diesels and didn't like the cramped quarters of the GM. I would NEVER attempt to pull this weight with any 1/2 ton...

 

[machmeter62]

My GF just bought the Tundra. It's a cool truck and she likes it..I like it all happy with it.
One thing on the rear end, it may have a 10.5" ring gear and all that but it is still a 5 semi-floating rear end.
I know GM and Dodge use American Axle 11.5" full floating rear end...big difference.

The Tundra is still a half ton with all the half ton stuff...still a good truck, I like it.
If they build a 3/4 ton like they did this 1/2 ton then it should be a contender with the other three.....but if they don't offer a standard tranny they will never sell me one.

I dislike semi-floating rear axles; here is the reason: if the vehicle overnights some where, other than level terrain for the axle, all the gear lube floats to the low side! Thus when departing, one bearing is dry while the low axle is over full. I have had to replace two bearings on a '93 GMC with semi-floating rear axles! If the vehicle is loaded, the wear is even greater!

 

[jcmseven]

I take some issue with Matt's (Greatwhitehunter) statement about "whining" diesel owners and the "why diesel" post I started. Our OP here is asking the same question I did. I think it is a valid question. He does also, apparently, and judging from the response, so do many others. I, for one, am not a diesel "pretender"; I have owned and operated a diesel truck for many years now and I was one who always said I would never go back to gas. That said, I also have the question about whether a diesel is really worth it for most of us. I really enjoy my 2008 F250 diesel and plan to keep it. I have procured inexpensive transportation for some daily driving and things are good. The reality is that the gap is closing, gas engined trucks (not just the Toyota) are approaching diesel performance for all but the heaviest towing, and they now get (with stricter emissions on diesels) similar fuel economy. I think our OP should drive a warmed up, super quiet and powerful SD 6.4L before deciding if he is a Ford man. I have been most impressed by the truck. That said, it is difficult to justify the additional cost of a diesel (not just the engine, but the truck) unless one tows pretty much every day, which almost none of us (including the diesel owners) do. To me the question about the Toyota and the subsequent diesel questions are quite applicable. Matt, there is no one here whining about diesels. I have mine and probably drive it more than many who "need" a diesel. Our OP in my mind needs to drive a SD diesel before deciding but unless he wishes to spend an extra $15K I think he may wish to consider the Toyota--and it hurts me to say that being I am a Ford fan and a diesel fan. In a few years, we might all be saying that we can no longer justify the cost of ownership of a light duty diesel truck.

John M

 

[jcmseven]

Kahuna,

I am sorry I did not realize that you had purchased the Tundra already. I hope you like it. I do wish you would have test driven a new 2008 6.4L. There is quite a difference between them and their predecessors. I know, though, that the Tundra will give you great service.

John M

 

[unreconstructed]

My 5.4 F250 with 6 spd tranny has worked OK for me. Don't have many hills here so the issue of being able to accelerate up hill with a load not my concern. Have ordered F350 with V10 and stick . Reading some of these posts you would think I made a mistake. Still did not want to spend the money on a diesel.

Pulled an RV with the 5.4. Definitely not the truck for the job.

I have been pulling my 5203 with 512 loaded, 20 foot trailer, box loaded with gear, back seat loaded with gear at a little under 70 at 2900 rpm. Probably get about 12 mpg--not sure. The 5.4 has worked for me, but after reading all the posts about diesels vs gassers I decided I just am easy to please.

There is no doubt if I pulled a lot commercially, I would go diesel. I make a trip of about 400 miles round trip 1- 2 times a month.

Ford mechanic told me if you ever have to work on the 08 Ford SD diesel powerplant, you gotta pull the cab. Said make sure your wallet is full.

I don't ever want another half ton.

 

[Kahuna]

When I bought the Tundra I would have loved to have had the 08 F250 and even looked at a F350 with the new 6.4 diesel. I drove by the lot every time I went truck shopping and drooled at that good looking new Ford. The only reason I didn't go that way was because of the price. About all the Ford diesels I looked had a sticker at about $52,000. The Tundra sticker was only $34,000, that is an $18,000 spread between trucks. I have heard where the 6.4 isn't getting the mileage they hoped for because of all the pollution equipment. I have been hearing in the 13 mpg range.

My son has the Duramax with a programmer and it is a beast. Without the chip it is a dog. I believe it is an Edge programmer or something similar with 5 on the go settings. He usually keeps it about 3. Empty he will get 20 mpg, he has the manual 6 speed. We were pulling a trailer with a tractor in the hills of Kentucky, probably a 13,000 load, and he would be in 6th gear and easily accelerate up a hill without down shifting. However, I have always liked the Ford.

I will tow less frequently than he with a smaller load so chose the Tundra based on the performance of 5.7 gas engine and 6 speed transmission. One person said he wouldn't go with the "Jap" truck. I did some research and found a chart of ALL vehicles sold in the U.S. They listed the most American top 10. All the top 10 were assembled in the U.S and were ranked by the amount of American parts in each vehicle. The F150 was most American and the Tundra was ranked 10. However, four various Toyota vehicles were in the top ten. The Tundra has between 75% to 80% American parts depending where you get your information. There is no Chrysler product in the top 10 making the Tundra more American than the Dodge Ram.

The Tundra was engineered in the US between Detroit and California. They hired most of their engineers, planners, designers, etc. from Ford and Jeep. Most of the electronics do come from Japan. The trucks are assembled in Indiana or Texas with the engines and transmissions both designed and built in U.S. plants.

If I had the chance to get an 08 F250 diesel, I would jump on it. However, I cannot justify that many dollars on an occasional puller.

 

[texasjohn]

OK... well, I summarize all the foregoing ... along with my (admitted) biases as follows:

I love Toyotas, family has owned 5 and all are still with us.

The Tundra gasser can be a viable choice for the occasional trailer tow.

Diesel engine vehicles are clearly very much more $$ than a gas... and $$ payback is a long time (if ever) in coming from either fuel savings or longevity of the engine.

Gas engines now overlap up into the diesel domain on torque and hp.

Wish you hadn't told me that Tundra was engineered by cast off Ford engineers (am unhappy with my F350) and Jeep engineers (have owned two jeeps and repairs on them were constant), makes me worry a lot.

Hope, desperately, that the Tundra can match Toyota's historical reliability, but looks like it may be slipping.. unclear yet to me if this is real... or if it is because of American engineers, parts, or assembly personnel...

Many traditional Ford/GM/Dodge, etc diesel people are very aware of the Tundra presence as a viable 1/2 ton pickup with high end 1/2 ton capabilities. When/if there is a 3/4 ton Toyota diesel a lot of people will seriously look at them with favorable eyes.

Net: I'm going to have to wait a while, if I can, on my next pickup purchase and hope that Tundra reliability proves itself... and maybe a diesel will show up in its lineup as well.

Good topic, germaine to me... thanks for startint it!

 

[RobertN]

I would offer that that is not really realistic. What gas truck is putting 600+ft/lbs of torque?

There is a HUGE difference also, in that a gas engine makes it torque at a peak point. Most diesels make peak torque over a wide rpm range.

Gas engines can be made to have that flat torque curve, but at terrible cost to gas consumption, and cubic inches. My 113ci Farmall A makes similar torque and hp to my B8200 Kuboata. The Kubota is only about 60ci, and uses much less fuel.

OK... well, I summarize all the foregoing ... along with my (admitted) biases as follows:

Gas engines now overlap up into the diesel domain on torque and hp.

 

[InlineDieselFan]

For your very limited towing you probably made a good good choice. I do not know the specs about towing with a 5th wheel. But for general daily driver stuff and the occasional tow you did well.

steve

BTW as the name indicates I am an inline diesel fan.

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

John, first off the "Why diesel post" started by you was amusing. Do you realize that most of your post are about you second guessing your purchases? You buy great high quality toys and then seem to need to reassure yourself you made the right choice. This is not a character flaw, I do the same thing. But as tons of folks pointed out in your post no matter how close a diesel and gasser are on paper or a sales brochure. They aren't similar in real life. Owning both you must be all too aware of this fact. I'm not calling you out at all. I do however feel the post is silly. You made the right choice for your needs. I understand the height issues you have but again the 80/20 rule applies. Surely you don't need us to tell you the right choice. You already know your options. You just need the reasureance to make the decesion. Again not a character flaw. The poster's comparisons are inacurate. And although I agree 100% the 5.4 in that application is underpowered, the rest of the truck are far superior to any 1/2 ton. Like I said it's not all about the HP it's the brakes,suspension,etc. From what I hear the Tundra is a great truck. And it's capacitys are setting the standards for other 1/2 tons (not 3/4 ot 1 tons). Even the dealers and mechanics will tell you that. Again John not an attack on you just my feelings on the matter.
I guess we can agree to disagree on the motiation for the "Why diesel") post.

Matt T.