74 hp skid vs 74 hp hoe for building tiny acreage?

[Rustyiron]

No building inspections in my county.

Many footings are 12" and that is what I believe that beam is.. 12" x 24" about

I chose a FPSF because you don't have to dig below the frost line. Less work and materials, cheaper and more DIY friendly.

No I have not had a soil test done.

The stick wall is offset to keep the foundation insulation flush with the wall.

https://www.homeinnovation.com/~/media/Files/Reports/Revised-Builders-Guide-to-Frost-Protected-Shallow-Foundations.pdf

Stick with your FPSF! Not only are they less costly but living on a hunk of frozen concrete is horrible. The further into winter the colder it'll get.
I'm not a super BH fan other than the Swiss army knife capabilities, but from what you've described I'd lean that way.
That 95 case SS is a very capable machine but you really have to be an "operator" to get much done and that takes time. Also the older you get, the more you'll hate getting in and out of it. And as a single guy building a house, you'll be doing a lot of getting in and out of whatever you buy.
I built an addition to our house with a FPSF and radiant in slab heat and it's performance is miles ahead of the rest of the house with 4' frost walls and an inch of foam vertically on the inside of the stem wall.

 

[Carl_NH]

Lots of names, but if you look closer at the design I posted, the slab is separate from the "frost protected footing" I'll call it.. I'm not going to try any flatwork, but figured I could DIY the footings, build the garage, and then hire a good finisher to pour the slab. Ive been told a floating slab is considerably cheaper then digging below the frost-line, not to mention the need for wall forms when placing footers 4' down.

The floating slab design we used was a monolith floating slab (code/engineering stamped) its all one slab with thick footings 18-24" wide by 18-24" deep perimeter with a 5" floor with rebar and are all one pour for a contiguous concrete foundation. Our barn and garage have been in 24 years no issues with cracking or settling - and we didn't use any rigid insulation under it or the perimeter.

Its a real easy forming job around the perimeter but if you are heating and doing plumbing in the slab plan it now or put in 3" pipe for future water/drain lines with insulation. I did prep the area with my BH and added 18 yards of crusher run stone then leveled and compacted that.

 

[rerod]

I'll take another look at the "frost protected footing" that you posted. Maybe I've missed something.
Did you get that design from someone with experience you trust?

That's funny, because I thought my picture came from this Revised Builder’s Guide to Frost Protected Shallow Foundations.. But I cant seem to find it in there.. lol. I saved it because it was the first picture of a frost protected shallow foundation where the footing and slab were two separate pours.. Which I thought would be a big advantage in my build.

 

[rScotty]

I'll take another look at the "frost protected footing" that you posted. Maybe I've missed something.
Did you get that design from someone with experience you trust?

That's funny, because I thought my picture came from this Revised Builder’s Guide to Frost Protected Shallow Foundations.. But I cant seem to find it in there.. lol. I saved it because it was the first picture of a frost protected shallow foundation where the footing and slab were two separate pours.. Which I thought would be a big advantage in my build.

The picture you saved might have been a different edition. That link you posted is to a "Revised Guide" - but I don't think it matters. The designs in that link look similar enogh to the one you posted a few days ago.

At least they are similar enough that I can see what was bothering me. In a nutshell, the author of those designs is making assumptions about heat flow that I don't agree with. I'm not saying he is wrong; I just wouldn't build that way. I also believe that most builders and engineers wouldn't either - not given today's materials and energy costs.

One of the assumptions in those designs is that that the building is always heated in the winter. With enough heat in the building, the foundation designer is showing he can build above frost line. The requirement is that the building always has enough spare heat to keep the foundation and surrounding supporting soil above freezing. Then by using enough insulation within a normally frozen depth, the designer is showing that the extra heat can be trapped.

So the design will work as long as some special conditions are met. They are implicit in his heat flow math, and are also mentioned in the text.

First is the one of having enough building heat to be able to keep the building plus the foundation above freezing, also the insulation has to be some sort of super insulation that never changes R value, and finally there cannot be any change in moisture around or underneath the foundation.

Spend the money and energy to meet those conditions, and there are no problems. But by not meeting all of those conditions, there will come a cold snap that may cause the foundation to see frost-jacking and then heaving.. That doesn't mean the building falls down, but it is exactly what was bothering me about that type of foundation design.

It's just a difference in personal preference. I see buildings as being a lot of work to put up. I'm real big on stability and structures that resist forces. Call me old fashioned because it's true.

So I prefer to over-design some things - like foundations - to automatically stay stable for the life of a structure. I just don't care for designs that require on-going special attention to work properly - in spite of that being the direction that the world is going now.

YMMV, and that's fine.
Good luck with it however you decide to do it.
rScotty

 

[Zork]

Morning folks..

I'm retired and want to build a garage with a apartment myself.. I used to do hvac and maintenance so I know a little about construction and Ive been reading.. No building inspections in my remote area of Iowa.

So I'm going back and forth about what machine would be the most versatile on my tiny acreage.. I think the skid (Case 95XT) would build a stick built garage faster and fit into small areas, but that the back hoe tractor (Case 580 4x4) could do more, but slower, bigger.. But it has a backhoe and a bucket..

I'm probably wrong about this but picked two machines that use the 4bt engine I like..

Opinions? Real life experiences?

Thanks!

I would take the loader/backhoe, whether it is fixed center pivot or 3 point (with subframe) 4x4 is a must over a skid steer. I have a smaller loader with 3 point (subframe) backhoe and I have not regretted the extra cost. If I were ever to go larger, I would take either a center or side shift

 

[Martin Roper]

Morning folks..

I'm retired and want to build a garage with a apartment myself.. I used to do hvac and maintenance so I know a little about construction and Ive been reading.. No building inspections in my remote area of Iowa.

So I'm going back and forth about what machine would be the most versatile on my tiny acreage.. I think the skid (Case 95XT) would build a stick built garage faster and fit into small areas, but that the back hoe tractor (Case 580 4x4) could do more, but slower, bigger.. But it has a backhoe and a bucket..

I'm probably wrong about this but picked two machines that use the 4bt engine I like..

Opinions? Real life experiences?

Thanks!

Get your self a self a 360 digger, it will be a decision you will never regret. It is rare that ours is not in use most days.

 

[Brendanspapa]

Morning folks..

I'm retired and want to build a garage with a apartment myself.. I used to do hvac and maintenance so I know a little about construction and Ive been reading.. No building inspections in my remote area of Iowa.

So I'm going back and forth about what machine would be the most versatile on my tiny acreage.. I think the skid (Case 95XT) would build a stick built garage faster and fit into small areas, but that the back hoe tractor (Case 580 4x4) could do more, but slower, bigger.. But it has a backhoe and a bucket..

I'm probably wrong about this but picked two machines that use the 4bt engine I like..

Opinions? Real life experiences?

Thanks!

Buy the skid steer. With attachments that you can buy or rent, it can do almost anything. They work well in tight spaces and Lou can do precision work. On
Rent a small track excavator, vs the backhoe. They have much better maneuverability than a tractor-mounted hoe. When you have finished digging footers you can send it back and it’s someone else’s to feed and maintain. Also, rent trencher for underground lines, they’re faster, more accurate depth and make less work to backfill and compact.

 

[candovt]

Morning folks..

I'm retired and want to build a garage with a apartment myself.. I used to do hvac and maintenance so I know a little about construction and Ive been reading.. No building inspections in my remote area of Iowa.

So I'm going back and forth about what machine would be the most versatile on my tiny acreage.. I think the skid (Case 95XT) would build a stick built garage faster and fit into small areas, but that the back hoe tractor (Case 580 4x4) could do more, but slower, bigger.. But it has a backhoe and a bucket..

I'm probably wrong about this but picked two machines that use the 4bt engine I like..

Opinions? Real life experiences?

Thanks!

I suggest the backhoe with a hydraulic thumb would give you long term assistance. One step further would be the backhoe as an attachment to a wheeled tractor with a three point hitch and quick attach front loader. I built a 3300 sf post and beam house using a Kubota L48 with that combination plus: front loader cement mixer, fork crane with remote control winch, snow plow, grapple, York rake, & grade blade attachments.
Vt for ever

 

[strykerAKAmack]

I started out with an old case 480c , got the job done but less you have wide open area to work in
it gets tight quick , added a case sr160 skid steer tons more work done with that machine ,
Best addition was a mini excavator 4 ton . Now that machine gets 80 % of work done .
If I got the mini x first would never had added a backhoe .Only time backhoe gets used is if I need the lifting power of it .

 

[joea99]

. . . Looks like they put allot of stress on the three point too.

A little late to this conversation, but . . . A "real" TLB does not attach the BH to the 3pt hitch. They are "frame mounted", but usually still removable.

Avoid 3pt hitch backhoe's like the plague. Fragile, sloppy and dangerous. IMHO.