Buying Advice Another looking for help on purchase

[jeff9366]

I have owned three tractors, each heavier than the former. All have had tires filled only with air.
My Kubota L3560 has a modest 37-horspower. Deere 4320 has modest horsepower too. You will not need loaded rear tires for tire traction, only for stability.

Only rear tires are ballasted. Front axle is too light and pivots, so fronts are not ballasted. Power steering is not designed for loaded front tires.

Rear tires are always ballasted 3/4 full for tractor work on slopes. This lowers tractor center-of-gravity on slopes. Liquid covers internal hub so hub is continually submerged. Tractors have no suspension other than air in the tires. If tires are filled 100% ride is terrible and traction degraded because rear tire flex is degraded.

If you buy a high powered tractor, say 4,000 pound bare tractor with 60-horsepower engine, loading tires will improve traction pulling Three Point Hitch ground contact implements such as a quadruple plow or heavy, wide Disc Harrow. Alternative is bolt-on cast iron wheel weights for traction on level ground. Sometimes both liquid and wheel weights are installed. Liquid and cast iron have advantages/disadvantages to each. But for slopes, to improve stability, 3/4 liquid is better than cast iron.

If you run tractor over hard surface roads at high speeds, 14 to 18 miles per hour, loaded rear tires (1,400 pounds) can negatively influence handling and braking, requiring extra caution as liquid falls.

If you get a puncture, you lose the liquid. Changing liquid filled rear tires is at least a two person, sweaty, potentially hazardous job @ 700 pounds per rear wheel.

All three of my tractors have had rear tires filled only with air. By design, I minimally compact soil; a tenant of sustainable agriculture. When I need ballast weight I mount a Cultipacker or Box Blade on the Three Point Hitch for counterbalance. My Three Point Hitch weight can be removed. Weight cantilevered on the Three Point Hitch is more effective counterbalance weight than rear tire weight on the rear axle.

A heavy tractor with air filled R4/industrial rear tires may still traverse lawns in 2-WD without marking; loading the rear tires usually marks/ruts lawns. ( I never mark/rut lawns with my 5,400 pound kubota L3560 with air filled R4/industrial rear tires in 2-WD.)

Rear tire chains, rubber or steel, are a neglected option for improving tire traction in fields. I have no experience with chains as my tractor has a modest 37-horsepower engine. However, T-B-N correspondents who use tire chains are fans.

You will need Three Point Hitch implements. Heavy implements are excellent counterbalance as they are cantilevered to rear of tractor, increasing effectiveness of nominal weight. Cantilevered rear weight unloads FEL load stress from front axle and front axle bearings; filled rear tire weight does not.

I keep a 600 pound Cultipacker on the Three Point Hitch most of the time. Cultipacker is my usual choice because it is compact. When I need to lift heavy FEL loads I mount 600 pound Box Blade, which protrudes further to the rear,
or 950 pound Disc Harrow which protrudes way.......back there, reducing maneuverability but permits 1,600 pound lifts my FEL is capable of.

Photo #5 is around 1,600 pound lift. Rear wheels may have had 200 pounds ground contact.

Tractor reliability is primarily a factor of prudence and experience of the operator. I operate my FEL at no more than 60% of capacity most of the time. You read here often: BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR. Buy enough tractor so you operate at no more than 60% of capacity most of the time, 100% only occasionally.

Heavy tractor, long life. Safety first.

Photo #7 Ratchet Rake grading.


MORE: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...386705-kubota-l3560-tractor-la805-loader.html

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[ericm979]

That's a self leveling loader on the Deere. Very cool. It keeps the bucket at the same angle as you raise and lower the loader. Few CUTS have it. Without it you need to pay attention to the angle of the bucket and move it as you raise and lower it.

For example when using the bucket to rounds of wood into a trailer I have to tilt the bucket down as I raise the loader so the wood doesn't roll backwards out of the bucket and land on the tractor hood or the operator.

There's more points to grease with that mechanical self leveller and more to check for wear but I'd gladly take that to get the feature. The capacity may be less than a regular loader, you'll want to make sure it's got the capacity for your needs.

A B3350 is too small as the sole tractor for your land. A 3301/3901 is larger but still smaller and lighter than I'd want. I only have 20 acres, all steep. The Branson I got is larger and weighs more than the 3901 and I'm glad I went with it as I can still exceed it's limits. There's other tractors besides Deere and Kubota. I'd also recommend getting a rotary or flail mower for the tractor and selling the DR mower, and getting something for the tractor to take the place of the plow (for snow? you don't say and don't list your location). A tractor weighs more and is made for pulling and pushing, a UTV isn't.

For filling tires I'd either do rimguard or winshield washer. The old way was calcium chloride which has problems.
I had mine filled when I bought it so I can't say what the difference between filled and not filled is but this tractor's much more stable on slopes than my old Kubota B7100. If you're going to be operating on slopes it's probably worth it though a heavier tractor does impact the ground a bit more.

 

[jeff9366]

ERICM979: Is that a pintle hitch in OP's Photo #3?

On my Kubota the rear/center drawbar is in that position.


That's a self leveling loader on the Deere. Very cool.
Curious, how many $$?

 

[ericm979]

yea it is a pintle hitch. Not clear from the pic if it's removable. The drawbar on my Branson is removable and can be set in a couple different positions. When I am pulling with it I set it so its extended, to reduce the lift the front and roll over effect. Not that I've gotten close to lifting the front but having seen the videos and met a paraplegic from a tractor rollover I'm being cautious.

 

[bspeedy]

Looks like SSQA bucket on the JD. Hard to tell for sure. That, to me, is preferable to the JD proprietary version. That 4320 looks like an honest tractor, meaning the appearance is appropriate for the hours. Nice grille guard, self leveling loader, overall decent shape - those are good signs of careful ownership. How much are they asking?

If it checks out, I'd buy that machine for the same money as a new L3901 ALL...DAY...LONG.

 

[jeff9366]

If it checks out, I'd buy that machine for the same money as a new L3901 ALL...DAY...LONG.

I would too. Much safer for a new tractor operator.


L3901 = 2,778 pounds, bare tractor.


Deere 4320 = 3,900 pounds, bare tractor.
Well equipped with numerous, extra-cost, factory options.

 

[ArmyDoc]

I have 100+ acres of rolling land in Rhinelander (WI), mostly wooded, for which I am trying to get a tractor. In the past, I have rented Bobcat skidsteers (e.g. T650) and 8500# mini excavators (love the thumb!) to do the work and have liked their size, but don't like the inconvenience of having to rent. .....I am in the category of having more money than tractor-related brain power, so would appreciate any and all help.

I suspect you and I have a lot in common. I have a little over 180 acres of planted pines... I'm slowly converting to a silvopasture set up. Have been doing this for about 8 years. I'll share with you a little of my experience.

I started with a used 45hp tractor that I got for with a bunch of implements (5ft box blade, 8ft scrape blade, 5ft spring harrow, 5 ft disc harrow, busted bushog, post-hole augar, mold plow - bent, drum aerator, boom pole, 2 row planter) and a new bush-hogfor about $10k. It taught me a LOT.

Some things I learned -
1) I need / want a CAB. I'm not a farmer, I'm a doctor. I am used to AC, and I'm not to work when it's really hot out. Only time I worked outside for past 8 years was early in the morning, and once it got too hot, I went back in. This resulted in a lot of time when I could have got some work done that I didn't. So, next machines will all have a CAB and AC. That's me. May not be you.

2) Newer machines have more safety features. (2b is that bolt on safety features are not worth it) and other conveniences. If I had it to do again, I'd have bought a newer tractor for a few thousand more rather than my 1970s bargain. I think hours matters more than years in general, but 30+ year old machines just don't have some of the features you will want / need.

3a) I'm not a mechanic.
3b) That doesn't mean I can't fix some things that break.
Having an older piece of machinery means things will break. After they do, you learn both 3 and 3b

4) having a FEL is pretty much a necessity if your property is forested. If you don't have it on your equipment, you are going to rent something or hires someone that does.

5) 45hp will do a lot. 90 hp will do a lot more easily.
For me, 45hp is the minimum for a tractor. It will pull a 6ft heavy bushhog and 5-6 ft implements just fine. But bushogging/disking 10-12 acres takes a long time with a 5-6ft implement. When I get 50 acres cleared, it will just not be a viable option. I wish I had bought a 90-100hp tractor with a FEL and a 10ft heavy bushog to start instead of 45. If I had, I might not be looking for new machinery now. (15 ft is great but only works on fields, not small areas)

6) don't buy light duty implements. Bush-hog I got with the tractor turned out not to work. Bought an inexpensive one that I busted almost immediately. Luckily he gave me full cost less repairs trade in on a new heavy bush-hog.

Finally,
7) I really need two machines
A tractor is a great, versatile machine. But you said you'd been renting CTL/skidsteers and excavators. No tractor with a FEL will not do what those things do anywhere near as well as they do. And no CTL/skidsteer/excavator will pull like a tractor.

I am currently looking at a JCB Teleskid. It's a 75hp compact trackloader with a telescoping boom. Why? Because I have a tractor that will do what I need in terms of pulling right now, even if it is not as fast or as comfortable as I would like. The things it doesn't do all fall in the CTL/excavator realm. The other option I'm debating is getting a 90-110hp tractor with FEL, but tractors in my price range ($60-80k) don't have the hydraulics needed to run some of the front end loader implements I'd like to run, and are not as maneuverable between trees. I suspect I will end up with both, but can't afford both now.

Hope this helps,

ArmyDoc

 

[Gary Fowler]

jeff9366

Thanks for excellent information. You've given me quite a punch list for a call to the dealer. Thank you very much for your generous assistance.

The JD4320 is from 2012. I'm attaching images from the sale site on the off chance there's any other useful information there.

It was interesting reading posts about using Rimguard (sugar beet byproduct) vs antifreeze/water vs RV water antifreeze vs windshield washer fluid vs axle weights. Will need to look into this, but not a deal breaker on used vs new if it's not in the JD4320, as it certainly isn't in the L3301 new. Funny thing is I'm seeing posts from some saying manufacturers don't recommend filling tires and also posts talking about maintenance on filled tires being problematic. I have no data either way, but random internet information can be as confusing as it is helpful. It seems the majority of posts favor using filled tires and I even found reference to tools that would let me fill tires myself, albeit losing some of the density provided by Rimguard.

Got sucked into reading about tire filling and the tangent took me into a realm I'd never thought about -- rear ballast. I do plan to do heavy lifting with the FEL, so I'm glad I read more about the need for ballast. Some folks have been pretty creative when coming up with ballast, so it's great to see ideas. I have welding equipment, so may be able to MacGyver something for the job.

For good or bad, my land has little in the way of slopes. There are a few areas of 20-30 foot elevation change, but that's an exception and most trails cross areas of 2-4 foot change.

In the third picture that looks like a drawbar holder between the 3PH lift arms (a bit weird looking) but the drawbar is missing. Make sure the dealer includes the drawbar and pin to hold it on if you go with that tractor. You will need that lower drawbar for pulling stumps, a trailer etc. Never hook up to the lift arms to pull a stump or other heavy load as you could easily flip the tractor over backwards.

 

[DieselBound]

Loaded tires don't make a difference other than for stability? Man, my B7800 would always raise the rear end up when doing any real loader work. My NX5510 with loaded rears can lift max weight (total max is 2,700 lbs) w/o anything attached to the 3pt. Why not hang a box blade? I do, on both, but the box blade(s) tend to be used when I do. For my NX5510 I was doing a LOT of loader work which required me to drag around a dump trailer- (up and down the road). I couldn't hang an attachment off the 3pt AND haul that trailer! If my rears weren't ballasted I wouldn't have been able to do my loader work: a bunch of material (sand/rocks). And for grading I know that the ballasted rears help my R4s bite more: I can actually stall out my NX5510 (w/a 1,200 lb box blade), wheels not spinning!

For sure, stability IS improved: my B7800 is WAY more stable- narrow frame and a fair amount of ground clearance (higher CG), so the ballast really is apparent on this machine.

 

[GeneDoc]

Well, I heard all of the suggestions about the JD4320, but I am here to report sheepishly that I went with the K3901. He lowered the price of that unit to $3K less than the JD4320, so I went with it. Did I do a thorough comparison with the JD4320 in person? Nope. Not that logical. I didn't want to invest 4 hours of drive time on a rare day off to see a machine where a wise man could haggle and investigate a likely superior machine. I'm not wise, have more money than time, and so went with the K3901. Thank you all for mentioning the apparent quality of the JD4320. I appreciate it, even if I ultimately didn't go with that machine.

I've played with it a little and like it a lot. They didn't have the ballast box in stock, but it's in town now so I hope to try it out in a few days. I have a few of the FEL bucket shovel arriving today and will be able to use that soon.

Now I'm in the position of having a 25hp DR mower, a Kolpin power 3pt hitch system for a UTV, and other implements to figure out how to sell. The Kolpin is a 3pt system, so perhaps some of those accessories of disc plow, chisel plow, and rear blade can be used on the K3901. I will just have to ensure the K3901 3pt system will attach to the Kolpin accessory bar far enough behind the wheels.

Thanks again all for your time and assistance.