Beat Juice Center of Gravity

   / Beat Juice Center of Gravity
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#11  
Appreciate the comments on relatively low accounts of flats. It is encouraging. My folks have had numerous tire leaks on their Mahindra, but they also have mesquite trees in central Texas. I have timber land in east Texas (mostly hardwoods) which the thorniest stuff, briar, probably would not penetrate the tires. I do worry about getting punctures from cut saplings, though. Not really ones that get whacked from the brush hog, but the ones I have already cut by hand using a hatchet.

Rock Crawler, I cannot see any scenario where adding weight at or between the axles, at the axle height or lower, would not make the tractor more stable. I also cannot see a scenario where lowering the center of the weight's gravity below the axles would not further increase stability. For these reasons, it is completely logical to isolate the consideration of wheel weights vs fluid in terms of maximizing stability through center of gravity - assuming the same weight for each component. That said, I am a civil engineer - so not the smartest of engineering bears, ha!
 
   / Beat Juice Center of Gravity #12  
Geotech said:
Appreciate the comments on relatively low accounts of flats. It is encouraging. My folks have had numerous tire leaks on their Mahindra, but they also have mesquite trees in central Texas. I have timber land in east Texas (mostly hardwoods) which the thorniest stuff, briar, probably would not penetrate the tires. I do worry about getting punctures from cut saplings, though. Not really ones that get whacked from the brush hog, but the ones I have already cut by hand using a hatchet.

Rock Crawler, I cannot see any scenario where adding weight at or between the axles, at the axle height or lower, would not make the tractor more stable. I also cannot see a scenario where lowering the center of the weight's gravity below the axles would not further increase stability. For these reasons, it is completely logical to isolate the consideration of wheel weights vs fluid in terms of maximizing stability through center of gravity - assuming the same weight for each component. That said, I am a civil engineer - so not the smartest of engineering bears, ha!
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, I must not have been clear enough in my writing. What I was was referring to is quantifying the exact changes to the machine's overall center of gravity front/back as well as left/right, comparing pre and post adding liquid ballasts to the tires of a particular build.

I agree, math or not, your are increasing stability.
 
   / Beat Juice Center of Gravity #13  
Flats - flats are a result of the operating environment. I have no thorns, stobs or other pointy protrusions. I do have sharp basaltic lava bedrock that will - if I spin the tires - take chunks out of the tire bars.

The one overriding fact - fluid in the tires or wheel weights will increase stability - just as widening the rear tire width will also.

I seriously doubt that there would be that much difference in stability between 250 pounds of fluid in the rear tires or 250 pounds of wheel weights.

Certainly not enough for anybody to get their shorts in a twist.
 
   / Beat Juice Center of Gravity #14  
I think if you look at the top level of wheel weights and compare it to the top level of fluid in a 75% filled tire, there's not hardly any difference in the height of the top of the mass, and actually, the fluid might be higher than the wheel weight. Of course, the bottom of the fluid is lower than the weights.

But look at typical wheel weights, and they stick out past the sidewall of the tire, so therefore, the weight is farther out than fluid in the tire could be. Farther out = better for stability.

So fluid filled = lower weight to the ground and wheel weights = weight farther out from the center. They probably end up having almost exactly the same effect on the center of gravity.
 
   / Beat Juice Center of Gravity #15  
Geotech said:
Appreciate the comments on relatively low accounts of flats. It is encouraging. My folks have had numerous tire leaks on their Mahindra, but they also have mesquite trees in central Texas. I have timber land in east Texas (mostly hardwoods) which the thorniest stuff, briar, probably would not penetrate the tires. I do worry about getting punctures from cut saplings, though. Not really ones that get whacked from the brush hog, but the ones I have already cut by hand using a hatchet.

Rock Crawler, I cannot see any scenario where adding weight at or between the axles, at the axle height or lower, would not make the tractor more stable. I also cannot see a scenario where lowering the center of the weight's gravity below the axles would not further increase stability. For these reasons, it is completely logical to isolate the consideration of wheel weights vs fluid in terms of maximizing stability through center of gravity - assuming the same weight for each component. That said, I am a civil engineer - so not the smartest of engineering bears, ha!
Click to expand...

Awe...come on Ben....
We Civil folk must not degrade ourselves.
We are the best!
We know that s__t flows down hill (plumbers do also)
 
   / Beat Juice Center of Gravity #17  
Construct an analog: take a paper plate, face horizontal and load it with sand to represent the 3/4 fill. Then measure where the balance point is. If the juice and sand filled the plate circumference, the CG would be in the center. At 3/4 filled, it will not be centered.

The use of fluid in the tires vs. equivalent weight by iron attached to the wheels will be the same as far as tread traction is concerned, but the actual difference comes into play when starting the tractor rolling. The iron will be part of the rotating inertia so the clutch/transmission final drive feels the extra load. Since the juice does not start rotating immediately (and actually may take quite a while to stir) the loads on the final drive are much less.

BTW: The use of a toy tractor, some fish weights and a couple of postal scales answers the question posed a while back about loader ballast, wheel loads and bucket position stuff. 20160307_230509.jpg
 
   / Beat Juice Center of Gravity #19  
What oosik said about not noticing much diff between weighting wheels vs tires, and btw that o'all CG isn't going to get as low as axle-center height with either option. Still have to pick one or the other.

So, if we've narrowed realistic choices down to WW fluid, beet juice, or wheel weights, which one has 0% financing? :D
 
   / Beat Juice Center of Gravity #20  
the old grind said:
What oosik said about not noticing much diff between weighting wheels vs tires, and btw that o'all CG isn't going to get as low as axle-center height with either option. Still have to pick one or the other.

So, if we've narrowed realistic choices down to WW fluid, beet juice, or wheel weights, which one has 0% financing? :D
Click to expand...

Why not foam fill? weighs more, no flats or puncture issues
 
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