Comparison BX vs GC vs LS J-series SCUTs

[ChinaSailor]

Gentlemen, thank you for the debate and experience. this is really helping me put the various scuts in perspective.

 

[Olympus]

Just looking at photos of the XJ2025H, it looks almost exactly the size of the Kioti CK20 but is a bit lighter. (CK20 is about 2700lbs with loader). The CK20 is really equivalent to an entry level B series Kubota in physical size but is heavier than the Kubotas and has a stronger loader. The B series Kubotas, almost by definition a CUT, weigh about 1600-1700 lbs without loader and presumably about the same as the XJ with a loader. I haven't looked at the specs for the XJ2025H but Kioti CK20s models are clearly marketed as competitors for the B series Kubotas so I don't see why the XJ wouldn't be compared to small CUTs like the B series and CK.

The J and XJ are certainly more similar in size to the B series Kubota than any SCUT. My neighbor frequently borrows his father's B Kubota and my J2023 is very similar in size. I don't know about weight. Bare tractor, the new XJ2025 is 1609lbs. So that's right there with the B Kubota and not too far from the CK Kioti. The J and XJ will perform more similar to those two than any SCUT also.

 

[ChinaSailor]

Well, I contacted MF, Kioti, Mahindra and Yanmar dealers to get info and quotes. Found that the local LS dealer is going out of business, so LS is off the table.

We shall now see the responsiveness as well as the spec details, prices, warranties, service costs. Once I have all of that will then set up meetings to visit the dealership, test drive the machine to see how it feels, and see how easy (or not) it is to attach/take off the attachments.

From there I will then have the selected dealer(s) come out to the property so we can run the machine on the terrain and they can look at the 2210 as a possible trade-in.

M

 

[GManBart]

Since you seem eager to quote specs maybe you should dig a little further.

XJ2025H
Tractor weight: 1609 lbs
Loader weight w/o bucket 638 lbs
Total weight with loader and no bucket 2247 lbs

1025R
Tractor weight 1444 lbs
Loader weight w/o bucket 305 lbs
Total weight with loader and no bucket 1749 lbs

That's a difference of 498 lbs. "A lot" different than your estimate of 100lbs. The LS comes standard with a loader so you didn't factor that in the weight. Bare tractor to bare tractor is 165lbs difference, but the LS comes with the loader. So tractor and loader compared to tractor and loader and you see the difference get much larger. So your weight argument has been debunked and now you're only left with the length and width. So in "footprint", the 1025R and XJ2025H are very close, but that's all the similarities I see. I understand you don't agree with my use of the phrase "a lot", but numbers on a spec sheet don't show as much as parking a machine side by side to a SCUT, which I have with Kubota BX models. The differences are more pronounced in person than on a spec sheet.

And nobody is making the argument that the XJ is similar in size to other CUTs. Thats just a waste of breath. Nobody that I know was comparing the XJ to any other CUT size models.

The Deere H120 loader weighs 541lbs, not 305lbs. That makes the weight difference between the two 262lbs (1,985lb Deere to 2,247lb LS) and most of that is in the larger wheels/tires.

So now it's that the footprint of the machines is similar, but that doesn't keep them in the same class? I guess next it will be something more non-specific like "intimidation factor" :laughing:

If you want to follow the whole "park them side by side" theory, go park a J2023H next to a Mahindra 5035 and say that the two are in the same class...that's just silly.

Every time this topic comes up it seems the people most loudly claiming that the J series are CUTs are folks who own them, or those who think it's an unfair comparison to their tractor of choice.

Saying something is a "small chassis compact" tractor really is no different than calling it a "sub-compact tractor" it's just different words....both are smaller than what most folks/companies call a compact tractor.

If it has a MMM option, a 2-range hydro, and is light enough that most CUTs can lift it on their FEL, it's a sub-compact in my book...regardless of how big the wheels are.

I'm not partial to any of the machines....I'd be happy to have a BX or GC or J in my barn for most of my routine tasks. That said, I don't see any reason to cause a big uproar when all of the machines in question have a similar footprint, and similar ballpark weights...regardless of what arbitrary class people want to use for them.

 

[GManBart]

Just looking at photos of the XJ2025H, it looks almost exactly the size of the Kioti CK20 but is a bit lighter. (CK20 is about 2700lbs with loader). The CK20 is really equivalent to an entry level B series Kubota in physical size but is heavier than the Kubotas and has a stronger loader. The B series Kubotas, almost by definition a CUT, weigh about 1600-1700 lbs without loader and presumably about the same as the XJ with a loader. I haven't looked at the specs for the XJ2025H but Kioti CK20s models are clearly marketed as competitors for the B series Kubotas so I don't see why the XJ wouldn't be compared to small CUTs like the B series and CK.

The XJ is actually larger than the J-series we've been talking about....a couple of inches in wheelbase, overall length, and several hundred pounds heavier.

The CK20 with loader actually get up to 2,850lbs with R4 tires (just under with R1s)...that's at least 25% more than the other machines we're talking about.

 

[Pierrepont]

GManBart,

Good analysis of the topic. Excellent points.

 

[Olympus]

305 lbs WITHOUT the bucket just like I said. See here: http://www.****************.com/for.../6309-h120-loader-weights-53-inch-bucket.html

Looks like the forum is censoring the link. It's from green tractor talk forum. The link shows a photo of the JD loader without a bucket hanging from a scale that CLEARLY shows 305lbs.

If you're going to keep quoting specs, at least make sure it's an apples to apples comparison. Comparing the JD loader AND bucket to the weight of the LS loader WITHOUT a bucket is hardly accurate.

And again, nobody is comparing the LS to other CUT category tractors. You're still talking about something that nobody has claimed.

 

[Pierrepont]

Those J2023h LS tractors are cute little machines. They do sit tall which makes a good first impression but I do agree the actual footprint is small.

 

[Olympus]

Width and wheelbase is the only aspect LS has in common with other SCUTs. Everything else is greater, including weight.

And those bigger tires hold more Rimguard also. That's an additional 330lbs added to my LS, putting its weight at 2577 lbs with the loader not counting the bucket. I'm guess it's pushing close to 3000 lbs with the weight of the bucket added.

 

[GManBart]

305 lbs WITHOUT the bucket just like I said. See here: http://www.****************.com/for.../6309-h120-loader-weights-53-inch-bucket.html

Looks like the forum is censoring the link. It's from green tractor talk forum. The link shows a photo of the JD loader without a bucket hanging from a scale that CLEARLY shows 305lbs.

If you're going to keep quoting specs, at least make sure it's an apples to apples comparison. Comparing the JD loader AND bucket to the weight of the LS loader WITHOUT a bucket is hardly accurate.

And again, nobody is comparing the LS to other CUT category tractors. You're still talking about something that nobody has claimed.

Deere doesn't specify whether the FEL is listed with, or without a loader in their accessories brochure...they just list it as 541lbs....it's rare for FEL weight to be quoted with a bucket, because there are various types, but it still doesn't change anything.

Park a J2023H next to a 1025R and a Mahindra 5035....which two look similar to one another? The J and the 1025R are about the same footprint, but one weighs a couple of hundred pounds more and has bigger wheels and tires. The Mahindra is three times as heavy and massively larger in every dimension....it's completely unlike the other two. We have minor differences between two and major differences with the third....that sort of means the third one is in another class. If the third one is in another class (CUT) that precludes the other two from being in the same class....at least logic says so.

When you say the J is a CUT, you're lumping it in with the Mahindra rather than the 1025R which is just silly. Even change the Mahindra to a small/medium CUT like a Kubota L3200 (3,400lbs with FEL) and it's still a silly comparison.

There is no line in the sand between SCUT and CUT, so if it makes you feel better to think of your J as a CUT....have at it, but that doesn't change the fact that it's very similar to all those other machines most folks call SCUTs and very unlike those machines most folks call CUTs.