Dazed and confused!

[Rdrcr]

Hey guys. How about defeating life saving pollution controls (small particle carbon emissions) in order to boost torque and Horse Power?

My tractors aren’t equipped with emissions or life saving pollution controls.

Mike

 

[Rdrcr]

Gotcha, yeah I'm in the same boat. I'd be willing to push my CX2510 output up closer to the 34hp rating it has on other tractors but how do you know when you get there. I too have been looking around for a PTO dyno with no success.

Also, I wouldn't talk to your dealer about it at all. Messing with the engine like that would definitely void the warranty on the engine if not the trans too.

Precisely!

Well, you gotta pay to play. So, “if” I decide to mess with anything, I’m fully aware that any potential failure is on me.
Just like any of the vehicles I’ve modified in the past. I’m okay with that.

The search for a PTO/Tractor dyno testing facility continues...

Mike

 

[iptman]

I operate a Kubota L3700, and have for years. HP be damned. It's all about tractor weight and gear ratio. Throw 700 HP at a 6,000 lb machine and all you have accomplished is to poison your neighbors.

Seriously...? 11 millions VW diesel vehicles were spewing 40x the allowable emissions for 6+ years and not one pollution monitoring sensor, instrument or scientist noticed.

 

[4570Man]

Hey guys. How about defeating life saving pollution controls (small particle carbon emissions) in order to boost torque and Horse Power?

I’ll leave the emissions on mine alone until it breaks but when that happens you better believe I’ll be looking to have it deleted.

 

[Doc G]

However, it appears nobody has any means of measuring any potential gains from these modifications. Plus, there seems to be zero consensus regarding the reliability or longevity of these enhancements.

Spot on, especially about how these mods hold up over time. Obviously this kind of equipment (e.g. PTO dyno) does exist but it is not readily available to the common man.

Additionally, I'm curious -- other than the obvious motto that "more power is better" (of course!) -- why do folks feel the need to overclock their tractors? Mine is 32ish hp gross, but I have yet to encounter a situation in which the engine power was not enough. I lose traction, even with ballast, well before I'm at the end of the power curve. Even if I had the PTO power to spin a 12-15 ft batwing mower, the weight and size of the machine would not handle it... that's really where the limitation is.

 

[iptman]

Spot on, especially about how these mods hold up over time. Obviously this kind of equipment (e.g. PTO dyno) does exist but it is not readily available to the common man.

Additionally, I'm curious -- other than the obvious motto that "more power is better" (of course!) -- why do folks feel the need to overclock their tractors? Mine is 32ish hp gross, but I have yet to encounter a situation in which the engine power was not enough. I lose traction, even with ballast, well before I'm at the end of the power curve. Even if I had the PTO power to spin a 12-15 ft batwing mower, the weight and size of the machine would not handle it... that's really where the limitation is.

You could get quite a bit bigger tiller with 34hp over 25, wood chipper and electric generator come to mind as well. Basically anything running off the PTO would benefit from more HP I'd think.

 

[Rdrcr]

Spot on, especially about how these mods hold up over time. Obviously this kind of equipment (e.g. PTO dyno) does exist but it is not readily available to the common man.

Additionally, I'm curious -- other than the obvious motto that "more power is better" (of course!) -- why do folks feel the need to overclock their tractors? Mine is 32ish hp gross, but I have yet to encounter a situation in which the engine power was not enough. I lose traction, even with ballast, well before I'm at the end of the power curve. Even if I had the PTO power to spin a 12-15 ft batwing mower, the weight and size of the machine would not handle it... that's really where the limitation is.

Good question.

In my case, the Kubota L series consists of the L2501, L3301 and L3901. The only difference between these tractors are the engines (hydraulics and tractor weights are basically the same), cost and complexity. The L3901 can support many larger 3-Point attachments because of the additional PTO HP. The benefit I would get by boosting the power on my L2501 is being able to power those same attachments as the L3301/L3901 depending on modifications. Assuming the modifications are reliable, I can achieve the same power output as the L3301/L3901 at a much more economical cost and without the emission equipment.

Mike

 

[ericm979]

My tractors aren’t equipped with emissions or life saving pollution controls.

Yes they are. Tier 4 emissions regs don't stop at 26 hp. They do get more lenient below that. Manufacturers can meet them with engine tuning and combustion chamber shape so they don't need a DPF or DOC. Tune the engine the wrong way and you'll greatly increase particulate output. Mmm, cancer.

2501s rev low. I think the PTO RPM is 1900. If your tuning adds power above that you may not be able to use it for implements without overspeeding them. You may be able to regear the PTO using 3301 parts but then you're probably looking at splitting the tractor. You may find that the tractor's wheel gearing is too high for your new torque curve. I like modifying vehicles but I bought my tractor to get work done. Fooling around with the engine won't get the brush cleared or meadows mowed. Unless you have a lot of spare time it's probably a better idea to just buy a tractor with the power you need.

PTO dynos are not that expensive. My Branson dealer has one which gets used to run in new tractors among other things. You may be able to find someone near by with one.

If you do it anyhow, let us know how it goes.

 

[Doc G]

Good question.

In my case, the Kubota L series consists of the L2501, L3301 and L3901. The only difference between these tractors are the engines (hydraulics and tractor weights are basically the same), cost and complexity. The L3901 can support many larger 3-Point attachments because of the additional PTO HP. The benefit I would get by boosting the power on my L2501 is being able to power those same attachments as the L3301/L3901 depending on modifications. Assuming the modifications are reliable, I can achieve the same power output as the L3301/L3901 at a much more economical cost and without the emission equipment.

Mike

Got it.

 

[Rdrcr]

Yes they are. Tier 4 emissions regs don't stop at 26 hp. They do get more lenient below that. Manufacturers can meet them with engine tuning and combustion chamber shape so they don't need a DPF or DOC. Tune the engine the wrong way and you'll greatly increase particulate output. Mmm, cancer.

2501s rev low. I think the PTO RPM is 1900. If your tuning adds power above that you may not be able to use it for implements without overspeeding them. You may be able to regear the PTO using 3301 parts but then you're probably looking at splitting the tractor. You may find that the tractor's wheel gearing is too high for your new torque curve. I like modifying vehicles but I bought my tractor to get work done. Fooling around with the engine won't get the brush cleared or meadows mowed. Unless you have a lot of spare time it's probably a better idea to just buy a tractor with the power you need.

PTO dynos are not that expensive. My Branson dealer has one which gets used to run in new tractors among other things. You may be able to find someone near by with one.

If you do it anyhow, let us know how it goes.

My two Tractors (B2601 & L2501) are simple mechanical diesel engines without any additional components or devices to control emissions. Both my "completely stock" 2020 & 2021 model year tractors "smoke" just as much, or perhaps more, than my neighbor's 30 year old tractor. So, if in fact my two tractors have Tier 4 emissions internal combustion "wizardry" and "magic", I'll have to take your word for it.

I've read that the L2501/L3301/L3901 share all the same components aside from the engines. I understand that each tractor has a different PTO RPM. I'll need to do further research on the PTO gearing and speeds.

More research is required on the PTO Dyno's.

I'll definitely post my progress or disaster...if I decide to do anything at all.

Mike