DPF cleaning

[5030]

My Ford Powerstroke says "clean the DPF at 120k miles, replace at 240k miles." Must be serviceable on way or another. Maybe they cut and weld them back together. The Kubota has clamps.

My Powerstroke lost ALL it's emissions hardware in a boating accident.

 

[5030]

When I purchased my used Kioti two years ago I had the local dealer service it. They forced a manual Regen process with their service interface to give me a fresh start. I assume they can run the oven cleaner mode to really cook it clean They indicated that it really needed it. I have noticed three auto regens in the 120 hours that I have put on.

People fail to understand something and that is, it's never 'clean' in the sense of the word. Successful regeneration only turns the soot to ash and the ash stays in the canister until it builds up enough to cause a pressure differential (what the sensors sense) and then it needs cleaned.

In essence, your 'fresh start' was in fact just another load of burned ash deposited in the canister.

 

[5030]

The OP looks to be from Canada. Are Canada's emissions warranty requirements the same?

Not a clue but Canada ascribes to the EU standards so I imagine it's the same.... or worse.

 

[Threepoint]

People fail to understand something and that is, it's never 'clean' in the sense of the word. Successful regeneration only turns the soot to ash and the ash stays in the canister until it builds up enough to cause a pressure differential (what the sensors sense) and then it needs cleaned.

In essence, your 'fresh start' was in fact just another load of burned ash deposited in the canister.

5030's comment sounds right to me. I've looked into the DPF cleaning issues for CUTS a bit recently. With each regen, the on-board regen process only partially cleans the DPF and DOC (diesel oxidation catalyst, where there is one). So subsequent regens leave incrementally more ash in the ceramic DPF filter and thus gradually become less effective. Soot also accumulates gradually in the DOC. In both filters, the residue can only be removed by a commercial cleaning service. I've made some calls, and around here there are two cleaning methods available. The basic method is "pneumatic-thermal" (aka pneumatic-bake), in which the DPF and DOC are first blasted with pressurized air, then kiln-baked. Supposedly that can restore the filters to about 75 percent of their original state. Price quoted to me is $450, once the service receives the filters. The other method adds a further process, "ultrasonic" cleaning following the pneumatic-thermal cleaning. The filters are submerged in a special cleaning fluid, then subjected to high-frequency vibrations for several hours. Supposedly, this restores 95 percent of the original condition. Cost quoted for the pneumatic-thermal-ultrasonic cleaning is $595 for the DPF plus $100 for the DOC.

The two local services I've called primarily service diesel truck systems, as would be expected. But they tell me they also have done a few Kubota and JD Tier IV tractors. So far, they haven't had filters come in from a Kioti Tier IV. But surely that's only a matter of time.

I'm pretty sure the DPF filter on my 2014 Kioti NX4510 HST Cab can be removed for service without pulling the entire system. Ditto, the DOC, although I haven't yet confirmed there is one. There are two band clamps that attach the end caps to the middle casing that holds the ceramic DPF canister. I'm still investigating this, though, so if any other TBN members have experience with this, I'd love to hear it. The shop manual has no discussion of this, probably because Kioti doesn't want folks fooling around with the emissions control system. I've also heard that parts for the filter system are not made available by Kioti, so extra care must be taken not to damage anything, e.g. gaskets in particular, during disassembly and re-assembly.

I only have 500 hours on my NX. I'm almost always working it under load and near full throttle, so I've noticed very few regens in the last six years, and all but one have been passive while underway. Recently, I've been helping a neighbor mow his 50 acres, and I've had two calls for manual regens after about five hours. I initiated the regen procedure manually, and both regens completed normally, in about 25 to 30 minutes. No codes have been thrown, but I'm watching this pretty carefully. If the tractor keeps calling for regen every five hours, I'll look further into commercial cleaning as possibly being necessary.

About three years ago, at around 250 hrs, I had a turbo seal leak that triggered a CEL and limp-home mode. The seal was repaired under warranty. I've wondered if perhaps that leak may have hastened the build up of soot/ash in the filters.

I'll report back as I learn more.

 

[rademamj1]

People fail to understand something and that is, it's never 'clean' in the sense of the word. Successful regeneration only turns the soot to ash and the ash stays in the canister until it builds up enough to cause a pressure differential (what the sensors sense) and then it needs cleaned.

In essence, your 'fresh start' was in fact just another load of burned ash deposited in the canister.

Actually the soot stays in the DPF canister until the pressure sensor differential reading triggers a regeneration, converting soot to ash. Most of the fine ash is then blown out the exhaust during regeneration, as brief show of white smoke.

But your right, after a certain number of years doing regenerations, even the ash cannot make it fully out of the ceramic screens, and it's time for the costly forced regeneration using a cleaning service. I prefer the 18 to 24 hour Thermal Baking, followed up by a 1-hour power wash using detergents to remove residual ash.

In Europe, where the diesels are about 50% of vehicles, and with bumper to bumper traffic, service stations will commonly recieve a vehicle in limp mode, and just do a detergent power wash on the DPF. This gets the vehicle on their way, with recommendation to hit the highways at high RPM and burn out the soot and blow out the ash.

For our tractors, it's just best to keep the RPM's up during daily work, to encourage a regeneration. Unfortunately, bad fuel injectors and turbos will overwhelm the DPF and it's time for a dealer visit.

 

[Kioti Dave]

5030's comment sounds right to me. I've looked into the DPF cleaning issues for CUTS a bit recently. With each regen, the on-board regen process only partially cleans the DPF and DOC (diesel oxidation catalyst, where there is one). So subsequent regens leave incrementally more ash in the ceramic DPF filter and thus gradually become less effective. Soot also accumulates gradually in the DOC. In both filters, the residue can only be removed by a commercial cleaning service. I've made some calls, and around here there are two cleaning methods available. The basic method is "pneumatic-thermal" (aka pneumatic-bake), in which the DPF and DOC are first blasted with pressurized air, then kiln-baked. Supposedly that can restore the filters to about 75 percent of their original state. Price quoted to me is $450, once the service receives the filters. The other method adds a further process, "ultrasonic" cleaning following the pneumatic-thermal cleaning. The filters are submerged in a special cleaning fluid, then subjected to high-frequency vibrations for several hours. Supposedly, this restores 95 percent of the original condition. Cost quoted for the pneumatic-thermal-ultrasonic cleaning is $595 for the DPF plus $100 for the DOC.

The two local services I've called primarily service diesel truck systems, as would be expected. But they tell me they also have done a few Kubota and JD Tier IV tractors. So far, they haven't had filters come in from a Kioti Tier IV. But surely that's only a matter of time.

I'm pretty sure the DPF filter on my 2014 Kioti NX4510 HST Cab can be removed for service without pulling the entire system. Ditto, the DOC, although I haven't yet confirmed there is one. There are two band clamps that attach the end caps to the middle casing that holds the ceramic DPF canister. I'm still investigating this, though, so if any other TBN members have experience with this, I'd love to hear it. The shop manual has no discussion of this, probably because Kioti doesn't want folks fooling around with the emissions control system. I've also heard that parts for the filter system are not made available by Kioti, so extra care must be taken not to damage anything, e.g. gaskets in particular, during disassembly and re-assembly.

I only have 500 hours on my NX. I'm almost always working it under load and near full throttle, so I've noticed very few regens in the last six years, and all but one have been passive while underway. Recently, I've been helping a neighbor mow his 50 acres, and I've had two calls for manual regens after about five hours. I initiated the regen procedure manually, and both regens completed normally, in about 25 to 30 minutes. No codes have been thrown, but I'm watching this pretty carefully. If the tractor keeps calling for regen every five hours, I'll look further into commercial cleaning as possibly being necessary.

About three years ago, at around 250 hrs, I had a turbo seal leak that triggered a CEL and limp-home mode. The seal was repaired under warranty. I've wondered if perhaps that leak may have hastened the build up of soot/ash in the filters.

I'll report back as I learn more.

Sounds like what happened to me. Started to regen every 2 to 3 hours. Bad injector.

 

[5030]

Along those lines, just like with a big truck, there are pressure differential sensors both ahead of and behind the canister / element that sense pressure differential but they also sense differential AFTER regen so the tractor will tell you via electronic display, when it's time to renew / clean the canister and or SCR unit (if you have a DEF) unit.

I would not be overly concerned with any cleaning until the ECM 'told' you it's clean time.

I do know that a Kubota T4 final engine (barring a soot causing event like a bad injector or excessive oil consumption or an intake tract leak) will go about 2500 regens before cleaning. That could be a second owner or 3rd owner thing. If you take an average regn at say 7 hours, which is pretty excessive, that works out to 17,500 meter hours. Having said that, I farm with mine and my 2004 Pre 4 engine has 2100 meter hours and my other 2002 has 5500 meter hours. Neither are close to 17,500

No point in fiddling with it unless there is a catastrophic malfunction. Just forget about and run the unit. You probably won't own it anyway. Someone else will and they can deal with it.

Having said that, you still need to adhere to scheduled maintenance and stuff like valve adjustments and air filter changes. Kubota and Kioti engines are solid lifter engines and require valve adjustments periodically Kubota is 1000 meter hours, I bet Kioti is the same.

I got lax on my 2002 and let the overhead adjustment slide a bit. Interesting'y, I never noticed the power loss but with a properly adjusted overhead (I had the injectors spray tested to and they were fine, I picked up a substantial amount of power. In fact. my 2002 is rated at 83 pto. They dynoed it after the adjustment and she was putting out 94 pto. Starts easier and quieter too.

 

[rScotty]

Interesting reading, shows how a dpf/doc should be constructed with maintenance in mind,
the few I have looked at on the larger ag tractors here I don't recall being designed to be disassembled.
They should be, I have to wonder if the EPA here in there infinite wisdom didn't decree they couldn't be made for periodic maintenance.

added;
I know the one on my pickup isn't, and don't know any that are.

Agree that it is interesting reading. The older Kubotas (2006-2014?) that have the pre-Tier IV Interim water-cooled EGR mufflers has a half inch pipe plug screwed into the bottom center of the muffler housing. The factory shop manual recommends to remove that plug and beat on the side of the EGR muffler with a hammer to get the crud out. If that doesn't work, remove it and beat on it some more.....maybe poke at it from both ends....
Well, that's not exactly how the shop manual words it, but that's the gist. Recommended every 600 hrs.

Somehow the two part v-clamp system in those articles from Canada and Europe models seems so much better. But I agree that in the USA the EPA may not allow that much private owner access to emissions equipment.

rScotty