expectation of privacy?????

[Junkman]

I have received PM's from other members asking me to contact them by e Mail, because they felt that the PM system wasn't secure. The gist of the comments have been that "the moderators can read this", or "the site administrators can read this". Is this true or is it safe to assume that all messages sent through the PM system are secure from anyone else viewing them? Do we have any "expectation of privacy" on this site with the Private Messaging System or is it within the "terms of service" that whatever we write is subject to viewing by the moderators and / or the administrators?..
Thanks

 

[Harv]

I can tell you that moderators do not have access to private messages.

Moderators are just good, long-standing members who have been asked to help out in keeping this site a friendly, pleasant place to discuss tractor stuff. Our "powers" are quite limited, and we are governed by a strict set of guidelines and are subject to review ourselves by the founders of the site.

This recent trend of a scant few towards trying to vilify the very people who are working hard to protect your rights and freedoms on this board is starting to look a little paranoid. I suggest that anyone who is truly concerned with these issues open a private dialog with the administrators, or maybe find a site that is more suitable to your needs.

 

[DocHeb]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Moderators are just good, long-standing members who have been asked to help out in keeping this site a friendly, pleasant place to discuss tractor stuff. )</font>

I would like to express complete support for our moderators. If somebody wants to write things they hope the moderators don't see, why would they use Muhammad's bandwidth to do so?

Play by the rules, or get your own playground. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[Glenn9643]

I don't have a dog in the race, and haven't noticed anyone trying to vilify the moderators. However I have noticed that any time the moderators are questioned, or there is a comment regarding moderators there are some who get mighty defensive in a hurry.
Your "if you criticize or question us you can take your toys and go home" sounds childish to me.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( </font><font color="blueclass=small">( Moderators are just good, long-standing members who have been asked to help out in keeping this site a friendly, pleasant place to discuss tractor stuff. )</font>

I would like to express complete support for our moderators. If somebody wants to write things they hope the moderators don't see, why would they use Muhammad's bandwidth to do so?

Play by the rules, or get your own playground. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
)</font>


I will add a big ditto to what you wrote. I use and enjoy this site. I have been edited by a moderator, but I hold no grudge eventhough I disagreed with the edit. It is not my site, I am a visitor here, it is not a Constitutionally protected right of mine to write anything I want and expect it to be posted. I live at my desk and get to visit the site frequently all day long, overall this is probably the best and friendliest site I've found on any subject. Sure we get into little fights, and I've gotten some PMs about one moderator in particular, but I think he is just doing his duty to help keep the site clean.

On a similar topic, I live in a private neighborhood. I've served on the board of directors several times. I've been put into a position of having to come down against the actions of some of my neighbors, but the reality is we all agreed to play by a specific set of rules (land covenants & bylaws) to live there. Was it a fun thing to do to enforce rules? NO. But it had to be done to protect the greater good. This site is no different.

 

[Golfgar4]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I don't have a dog in the race, and haven't noticed anyone trying to vilify the moderators. )</font>

I respectfully disagree. Of late, there have been a number of comments in various threads (not moderator related) alluding to moderators not reacting fairly to certain types of remarks, or deleting posts.

It has been my feeling that the remarks being made were intended to challenge the authority the moderators operate under. It's the same old argument we've seen a variety of times about moderators showing favoritism. Sometimes I wonder if this is jealously on the part of the poster, or the poster has a problem with "authority" figures.

I, for one, am tired of seeing these comments about the moderators. I view them in the same light that I do about complaints I hear from members of our church about work that volunteers do for the church. The complainers whine because the work wasn't done fast enough, or that it wasn't done the way "they" would have done it, or the volunteers spent too much on materials, or whatever.

Come on - get a life! If you don't like the way a moderator handles a certain situation, then contact that moderator and discuss with him privately . We don't need all of this sniping and complaining in the general forums.

I've always applauded what the moderators do for us. I truly believe that without them, TBN may have ended up just like all of these other forums that we've heard about that are so bad. Sure, our moderators are subject to mistakes just like anyone else. But how would you like it if someone complained/challenged many of your decisions in public? I bet you'd get a little testy too after awhile.

And just so you know, I've been "cautioned" by a moderator in the past too.

Thanks to all of the moderators for their efforts and their dedication to this forum. Keep up the good work guys! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[MossRoad]

<font color="blue"> is it safe to assume that all messages sent through the PM system are secure from anyone else viewing them? </font>

Not when the person receiving the PM decides to post it in public, as was done regarding the Patriotism thread back in November.

I typed up the following back then, on November 11th, and decided not to post it. However, with this re-curring theme of censorship, secure PMs, mysteriously disappearing posts, etc... I changed my mind. So here goes...

Junkman,

Regarding posting my private message to you in public... speaking strictly as a fellow poster on TBN and not a moderator, I find that a breach of trust. PMs should be treated as a private conversation between two individuals.

Instead, you chose to share that with the entire world without gathering all the facts. Your post on patriotism was removed because of the actions of others. I explained that to you in the private message that I sent you. You didn't have the chance to see three more replies to that post that came after the moderator's suggestion that the post was getting out of hand.

They violated the Forum Rules which are clearly stated in the FAQ, and therefore, the post was removed. That's the only reason it was removed... There was no political agenda, no conspiracy or no grudge against anybody. I sent all parties involved a private e-mail explaining why the post was removed and asked for their cooperation and understanding. Apparently, they agreed to let it go, got over it and asked that we all do the same. Yet it seems you can't let it go, as your reply in this post clearly indicates you still are upset about this.
<font color="blue">What is allowed is free speech as long as the moderator that is reading it agrees with what you are saying.</font> That couldn't be farther from the truth. There are many posts by many TBN members that I don't agree with. But they don't contain foul language or pour fuel on a flaming thread, which is what happened to your Patriotism post, so it was removed. Sorry about that, but that's why it was removed. All I am asking is that if it ever happens again to one of your posts, or a post that you were following, just ask first why it was removed before posting a flaming rant.

If you would like to discuss this in a civil, private conversation, I would enjoy that; send me a PM. If you want to post this in public, that's your prerogative, however I won't go there.

Well, I just went there. There is no conspiracy. I cannot read private mail that wasn't sent to me. I don't pick on any individual. I try to discuss any moderation of threads with my fellow moderators before I take any action. I follow the guidelines set up by the owners of this board. I can count on my fingers the total amount of threads that I have moderated if I exclude the blatant advertising posts that I have removed. The vast majority of the threads that I have moderated were brought to my attention by TBN members that pushed the Notify Moderator button. Many of my own posts have been moderated by the moderators. I have received an explanation as to why when I have asked.

Let's please just drop this censorship, conspiracy, someone has power over me line of posts. I don't make the rules here. And I don't arbitrarily enforce them. It is usually a group decision that most TBN members agree with. I have left threads alone that others have found offensive, only to be overruled by the majority of moderators or higher up. That is OK with me. We all don't have the same tastes or interests as each other and what I find humorous often offends others or I forget that it is insensitive to others(the wheelchair thread is a perfect example) and have to be reminded. It makes me choose my words a lot more carefully most of the time and teaches me to play nice with others not because I should walk on egg shells because I might offend some sensitive person, but because I would appreciate it if someone would do the same for me. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

David G.

 

[Muhammad]

To answer your question, Junkman, PMs cannot be accessed by moderators.

Regarding moderator favoritism, criticism and vilification... that's not really anything new. It happens on virtually every forum online.

I know that our moderators are fair and only delete things that they are suppsoe to delete, per our forum rules. I get to look at everything that gets deleted, and in most cases, moderators council with each other before removing a post or thread.

The only reason one would think that a moderator (or moderators) is targeting them, is if they constantly break the rules and stir up trouble. It's in some users' nature to respond to the removal of one post with the posting of another message that breaks the established forum rules.

I'll mention again that only 5 out of 1,000 messages are removed... and probably half of those aren't really "moderated" but removed because they are duplicates or test messages. Just to put things into perspective.

We feel that the removal of those 5 messages ensures that the remaining 995 will be good contributions to the community.

And let's not forget that it was users who originally requested that messages be removed---moderation is a lot of work that we would be thrilled to not have to do.

 

[Junkman]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I would like to express complete support for our moderators. If somebody wants to write things they hope the moderators don't see, why would they use Muhammad's bandwidth to do so?

Play by the rules, or get your own playground. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
)</font>

This question isn't about the moderators. It is a question of privacy. If I were to want a discussion of a matter of religion, sex, law, medicine, or any other private matter with another member, I just want to know if this can be viewed by anyone else. Just like we have an expectation of privacy on your telephone or our mail. There is no paranoia[/] involved. You ask why "use Muhammad's bandwidth to do so?". The answer is simple. He has provided this as part of the system to communicate between members, and if he didn't want us doing this, then he wouldn't have provide it. It behooves me to understand why when anyone makes any comment about moderation, that a small group of people rise up and start to claim that the moderators are being vilified. No one is being vilified, but some things are being questioned. If these questions were answered intellegently and fully when first asked, there wouldn't be any further discussion. Are we to never ask a question of moderation, because some person or moderator might find that question offensive? If I were to send a PM to another person to discuss a matter of abortion, this might offend some moderators or the administration. If they didn't know of the discussion, they wouldn't be offended. This whole question of privacy could be answered quickly if Hakim or Muhammad would respond. There is no reason that this question should cause such decisiveness among us. It is a simple honest question that deserves a simple and honest answer. Nothing more. No accusatory finger pointing or questioning of the moderators motives, etc. I drop a grain of sand and the rest of you turn it into a mountain. This is the very thing that I have tried to avoid in the original phrasing of the question.

 

[Junkman]

Mumhammed....
Thank you for your reply. You must have been finishing up your reply as I was typing one of my responses. The only question that has yet to be answered is "Do administrators have access to the PM's?". I believe that this is a fair question and deserves an answer.

MossRoad......
That was back in November and it is now June. In the event that you haven't noticed, I have changed and I don't hold grudges. I do question things that I feel need answers and I do let things go unanswered when I see that getting an answer will be difficult or embarrassing to someone. If you feel that my asking questions of why something is done is offensive to you, the other moderators, or the administration, then tell me so and I will never question another thing. If you found that my Patriotism is offensive, that is your problem. I love the U.S. of A. and you nor anyone else is going to change that. If you or the Administration want me to leave the Forums, just let me know and I will leave. I believe that I have been a good and helpful member here and have been helped by others. Apparently you have taken this personally. I don't know why???????