Ford 1700 & 1710 tractor parts

[jim_n_nh]

Like anything if you are somewhat talented then most parts can be adapted. I had a 1986 1710. I wanted some simple hydralic parts and went to Chappells in Milford NH. They could not get them, went to Sanels (autoparts, hydralics, machine shop) they couldn't get them,, went to USA Hydralics, they couldn't get them. I was up in Maine on vacation and went to Union farm equipment, they could get them. I took a us 5/8" ferral and sliced it diagonally and wrapped it in plumber's tape. That lasted for years and I believe it is still working (I sold they tractor).

 

[BWBrown]

I'll chime in quick. I bought my 1700 4wd new in 1981. Sold it in '87, and bought it back again in '93. It has never left me down. Over the years there has been routine maintenance and repair: oil, filters, tires. glow plugs. Right now it could use a couple injectors. (It starts on one and runs on two.) Overall, it is a welcome resident in my barn.

I use the loader to clean/move manure, it runs a 5' brush hog, pulls a hay rake and loaded hay wagon, soon to have a backhoe, and has moved more than its share of snow over the years. It has also run the baler on occasion when needed, but is a little light for that, the ram really beats you up all day!
Bob

 

[JB4310]

Live pto means the pto can be clutched seperately of the drive train.

non live pto means the drivetran and pto are clutched together.

ground speed pto means the pto is tied tot he drivetrain.. no move=no pto

the 1700 has a plain old non live pto.. that menas you shift the trans to neutral, engage the pto.. and slip the clutch and away your pto generator spins..

Soundguy

O.K. Soundguy thanks that explains it, was kinda thinkin along those lines but was not sure.
So what's the best source for parts, besides the dealer? we have a new Holland dealer in town and I almost fell over when they quoted me for an new alternator, forgot how much, but it was a shock, had mine rebuilt for $160.00. they want like $60. or $80. for the flasher switch.

BWBROWN, is it common to have to use glow plugs to start for the first time in the day even in warm weather, now that it's getting cold it's a little harder, have to cycle the glow plugs, crank, start and run rough briefly, die and then do it over again 3-4 times. could it be injectors? there's 2600 hours on it, how many hours can you expect? if these are original injectors, once started it runs very smoothly. Can you clean and maintain injectors or is is it better to replace if old and high hours? any easy way to check glow plugs are both working? the element on the dash does get bright.
I want to bring this tractor up to reliable top shape since I may have to rely on it for back up power. thanks everyone.

 

[JC-jetro]

hey JC (I'm the guy you helped when I got my 1700 this summer) or any one else that may know, regarding the live PTO issue, I have no experience with pto implements so I need to understand this as I am seriously considering a pto generator (like within a week or so) I read somewhere else that the 1700 does not have a live pto, does that mean the pto will not operate when the tractor is stationary? does it only work when the tractor is in gear and moving or does it just have to be in one of the ranges to work and not in a drive gear?
my PTO shaft definitely turns when I engage the lever even with both the tranny and range selector are in neutral. my 1700 is a later model 1980 or 81 if that makes a difference.
Glad to see a little discussion on this model, and again from Andy, another 1700 owner/operator who has very positive feedback. the little discussion I have found on this model is all good, that's why I want to use it for a back up generator power plant.

Hey John, How do ? I concur with all that soundguy said but am going to say the same thing a bit differently. The lingo is a bit different with different manufacturers on how they classify PTO operation. The terms that are used are live, independent and transmission drive PTO. I would not include ground speed PTO as it is so outdated and your 1700 never had it as an option or otherwise. They key with the live or independent PTO is to have the ability to turn the pto regardless of transmission clutch operation. This task is normally done with two drive shafts , both splined , one solid and other one hollow. Usually the inner solid shaft is splined to the PTO clutch disk, the outer splined shaft is splined to the transmission input shaft. The clutch assembly is two pressure plates and two clutch disks and a housing that holds all of it as one assembly.... in this fix you would push the clutch plate half way and it would disengage the transmission first to change gears but the PTO clutch is still pressed against the PTO pressure plate and hence PTO shaft continues to rotate.... if you push the clutch pedal all the way at that point not only you have disengaged the transmission but also disengaged the PTO clutch keeping it from rotating. This type of PTO is live with two stage clutch.

Another flavor of this live is called "independent" , when the inner PTO shaft is directly splined to the flywheel (no PTO clutch at the tranny).. this shaft then runs all the way close to differential and then there is a set of clutch pack, usually wet (in oil) that engages or disengages the PTO by hydraulic pressure to the clutch pack. Tractor like that may have just a PTO switch. in this flavor of "independent" PTO , the tractor is advertised having a single clutch plate. Now back to the question you had;

"does that mean the pto will not operate when the tractor is stationary?"


The answer is "yes... it will operate"... you can have the tractor stationary but have the PTO running by simply clutching the transmission, engaging the PTO lever and leaving the gear selection to "Neutral".. the range would not matter. Anytime you clutch you will stop the PTO rotation. The tractor does not need to be moving in this scenario. Obviously you also have experienced what I just said from your post. The draw back of transmission drive PTO is that the momentum of a rotary implement can push the tractor forward when you clutch.. that can be avoided with a one way clutch... your 1700 has one internally. Second problem is when you change direction (back and forth),and when you clutch the PTO slows down and the action of cutter is compromised especially if you are finish mowing.... not as big of a deal if you brush hogging. on occasion I quickly put the gear in neutral in a corner or tight spot to keep the PTO turning to continue chomping on unwanted vegetation when the tractor had to be stationary.

I hope I did not bore you with my explanation as I know many many people have heard the same explanation over and over


JC,

 

[JC-jetro]

O.K. Soundguy thanks that explains it, was kinda thinkin along those lines but was not sure.
So what's the best source for parts, besides the dealer? we have a new Holland dealer in town and I almost fell over when they quoted me for an new alternator, forgot how much, but it was a shock, had mine rebuilt for $160.00. they want like $60. or $80. for the flasher switch.

BWBROWN, is it common to have to use glow plugs to start for the first time in the day even in warm weather, now that it's getting cold it's a little harder, have to cycle the glow plugs, crank, start and run rough briefly, die and then do it over again 3-4 times. could it be injectors? there's 2600 hours on it, how many hours can you expect? if these are original injectors, once started it runs very smoothly. Can you clean and maintain injectors or is is it better to replace if old and high hours? any easy way to check glow plugs are both working? the element on the dash does get bright.
I want to bring this tractor up to reliable top shape since I may have to rely on it for back up power. thanks everyone.

I glow plug in winter cause it helps quick start and even in the summer. By doing so you'll increase life expectancy of your starter by a lot. Why do you have to start 3 or 4 times when you can do it once provided you glow plug for few second. Glow plugs have no moving part and are just a simple device they can be cycled many many times more than a starter.

I would use Power service diesel additive in my 1700.. about two ounces per tank... It helps with the lubricity of Low Sulfur Diesel fuel and also has injector cleaner. injector are about $200 a pop if I remember right. Also make sure replace the oil in your injector pump every 300 hrs.

The element glowing on the dash does not indicate if the glow plugs are working it only checks the circuit continuity. if the glow plug shorts out , then it can not heat but yet the circuit is complete. The element only acts as a timer.

JC

 

[JB4310]

JC, it's interesting, but for my stationary pto needs I shouldn't care about or need live or independent pto operation (from what I've learned now), how about your cold weather starting, any trouble? Is there a block heater for this model or would you have to get a generic set up?

As far as the cycles, I was referring to, I didn't mean I was turning the glow plugs on and off, I meant I have to go thru the whole starting procedure more than once to get it to keep running, I do let the dash element get full bright before cranking, it will start but will not keep running when below freezing, the fuel additive is a good idea though.

I tried pull starting it with another tractor and chain just to see if I could in an emergency, in case of a failed starter or other problem that would prevent key starting, well it just skidded the whole time, wouldn't turn the engine over even in in high gear, once I key started it and let it warm up a little before turning it off, I was able to pull start it but only in the highest gear, any other gear would just skid. anyone have any tricks to pull starting a cold diesel powered tractor

 

[JC-jetro]

JC, it's interesting, but for my stationary pto needs I shouldn't care about or need live or independent pto operation (from what I've learned now), how about your cold weather starting, any trouble? Is there a block heater for this model or would you have to get a generic set up?

As far as the cycles, I was referring to, I didn't mean I was turning the glow plugs on and off, I meant I have to go thru the whole starting procedure more than once to get it to keep running, I do let the dash element get full bright before cranking, it will start but will not keep running when below freezing, the fuel additive is a good idea though.

I tried pull starting it with another tractor and chain just to see if I could in an emergency, in case of a failed starter or other problem that would prevent key starting, well it just skidded the whole time, wouldn't turn the engine over even in in high gear, once I key started it and let it warm up a little before turning it off, I was able to pull start it but only in the highest gear, any other gear would just skid. anyone have any tricks to pull starting a cold diesel powered tractor

John,

I do not have a block heater as I don't use my tractor a lot in winter since not living on my property. Even in the cold when I start the tractor , once it gets going it almost never dies. If you have to start but it dies couple of times before it becomes steady leads me to think that it may be a bit fuel related. That does not mean that you have injector or pump problem.. they just may be a bit tired. I know that power service helps specially with injector cleaning and gelling of your diesel fuel. I recommend using it ... you'll like it. I know that you can buy insertion type block heater from many of automotive places... that along with a timer should be enough to keep your engine warm.
As far as push or pull starting. I can on flat surface rock the tractor back and forth a bit in range 4 and 3rd gear although the resistance is quite a bit.. I think I could skid if I pull constantly. I don't know how you pull start but the thing to remember that your fuel pump is mechanical and it is driven by crankshaft/camshaft gear so in other word engine should be turning to get fuel in the chamber...(No fuel... No Go), position of ignition switch matters nothing with your 1700 since no kill switch is in your ignition circuit (obviously you have no ignition system with your diesel, heat of compression ignites the fuel). What I would do to pull start is to tie the tractor to a tow vehicle, put the gear in a highest (range 4, 3rd gear), I then glow plug even a bit more when the indicator glows red, have my partner pull me while I have clutch depressed, once I start moving then I let go off of the clutch and let her fire up. I don't know if there is any special tricks to this but make sure your fuel valve is open and glow plug plenty even before you pull.

Good luck,
JC


PS. Reading your post again and I am like Mmmm, I sure hope you are sitting on your tractor when trying to pull start , clutch initially to get her going so you will not skidding from right of the bat.

 

[JB4310]

Not to hijack North Dakota's thread any more, but yes JC I'm doing the pull starting with 2 people/second tractor and no I intentionally did not glow plug it because I wanted to see if it could be started cold even with a complete electrical system failure. I'm gonna try heating the engine on the pump side with a propane weed burner torch (carefully from a distance). The kid that works for me is from Poland and has a lot of experience keeping equipment going under poor conditions, it is his idea to blast some heat on it first, he remembers when they did not have anti freeze and had to dump the water every night and pour in hot water in the morning, sometimes his father had to make a fire under the tractor in extreme cold, which I have heard about here to.
I'm almost ready to order a 10 kw IMD PTO generator, when I do I'll post back to the thread I started on this subject a couple of weeks ago.
Thanks John,

PS. I do know a numb nuts guy who just recently tried pop starting his old BMW car by himself by pushing it with a 5 ton dump truck, well it work great , only problem is it drove itself across the yard and came to an abrubt stop when it crashed into another piece of equipment, I don't know what he was thinking!!!

 

[JC-jetro]

I'm gonna try heating the engine on the pump side with a propane weed burner torch (carefully from a distance).

If I had a choice I'd use an electric heat gun (of course if you have electricity near by) rather than open flame if I can help it. Good thing that diesel flash point is high.. You'll be all right .

JC,

 

[BWBrown]

To respond to the question above... yes, it is common to use glow plugs to start, especially in colder (sub 40 degree) weather.

I have no answer as to the life expectancy of the injectors, but I suspect I have one that is due for retirement. I don't know about cleaning. I do know that some of my diesel truck friends speak of having injectors reconditioned. I may try to look into that.

I also echo the use of Power Service, or any other additive, they aid diesel life expectancy for many reasons.

Push starting might be interesting and challenging. I shy away from starter fluid (unless really in a bind), though I see big truck drivers using it regularly. An old diesel mechanic friend tod me about putting a rag (wet with gasoline and wrung out) over the air intake to make diesel starting easier. I have done it twice over the years, worked both times. HE said it would not "wash off the cylinder walls like ether does."

The 1700 is an older design, mechanical injector pump machine. Sometimes takes awhile to get going, but once running will always work for you. A well warmed up engine will restart easily.
Bob