Fram Filter Problem - From another forum

[brokenot]

I have news for you, filter media and filter media surface area does play a huge role in how effective an oil filter is

You completely missed my point. Read it again....if the person that hack-sawed the filter cannister open SAYS that the filters being compared have different TYPES of filter media, then measuring the surface area and using that measurement for comparison means NOTHING.

What if one square inch of media "A" can be tested to determine that it is as efficient and effective as 1.5 square inches of media "B"? Does that not make a simple comparison of the two measurements irrelevant? That sort of simple thinking is abundant on just about all of those comparison sites. Not only that, but many of them start out with a disclaimer like, "I have no background in this field, but...."

The SAE does testing. The oil filter comparison websites do not.

We've all had engines apart that have had excessive wear and damage due to contaminants. There has been NO "smoking gun" so to speak filter-wise in the ones I've seen. It has always been a general lack of maintenance, and/or the conditions the engine is being used in. Have the ones you're talking about had Fram filters exclusively? How do you know that? Have the owners been completely up-front about their maintenance practices? How do you know that?

I'm not a Fram *supporter*, but most of what's been posted about them, (on the 'net especially), is bad science and poor research.

And it can be proven.

 

[crazyal]

I've rebuilt engines that needed rings, honed cylinders, crank journals and entire short blocks due from poor oil filtration; allowing contaminants to continue to circulate through the engine. The most common denominator? Junk Fram oil filters.

I have news for you, filter media and filter media surface area does play a huge role in how effective an oil filter is. If you're so convinced otherwise, do the paper towel test with a used Fram filter media. The media is not only unacceptably short on surface area, but also rips and is pierced easier than any other filter membrane I've ever seen. You can poke your finger through the media with almost no resistance. It's a joke!

Fram filters have a stamped metal flap on metal to stop flow back from upper engine. Yeah, that's a brilliant idea. That's going to hold well. The other "valve" is in place for when the filter membrane becomes plugged to the point of reducing oil flow. It opens under pressure to allow oil to continue to flow. Since they know their membranes become plugged easily, the flapper opens so easy that who knows how much of your oil is actually filtered or just run through the bypass.

I can crush a Fram filter with my bare hands. Personally, I'd like a filter can with a bit more strength than my Budweiser can. I'm not going to risk my engine on something that cheap. I absolutely refuse to even consider a Fram filter on even a lawn mower engine. If the engine runs, it's worth enough to put something better than a Fram filter on! There is a reason that Fram is the cheapest filter and why it's the best seller at Walmart. It's for the Walmart type of customer; where price supersedes all other factors.

As far as the stories about "well, I ain't had no problems with a Fram filter", I have a 1962 235ci inline 6 cyl that has 200k miles on it and it didn't come from the factory with an oil filter and never had one on it! Oil filters were options then and that engine never had that option. I'd contend that no filter at all is better than a Fram filter. I heard that if Fram improves their quality by at least 100%, Harbor Freight may consider carrying them. LOL

Again you are using personal opinion as scientific fact. Are they the best filter out there? No. If you rebuild enough engines undoubtedly you will notice that most of them will have the most popular filter installed on them. How many of those engines you rebuilt had the oil changed every 3k miles? Would I run an engine for 12k to 15k miles between oil changes with a bottom of the line el-cheapo oil filter, Fram or any other brand, not likely. Would I buy expensive sythetic oil and install the cheapest filter I could buy, of course not.

I can remember when a beer can had some heft to it, not the thin aluminum ones we have now, were the older ones better because they weigh more? I would get use to the idea of thinner filters as we move to better fuel mileage standards parts will need to get lighter.

The funny thing is you go on to say that you have an engine with 200k miles on it that doesn't even have a filter. Think about that. If an engine can make it that far without a filter then it's kind of hard to point at a filter as the problem.

Again the bottom line is if you are going to change your oil at the required intervals then a Fram will get the job done. Other cheap ones may be better. All filters have been engineered for a specific amount of use. If you exceed that then you are at risk. My personal opinion is the engineers at Fram decided to give you less extra time.

 

[Dargo]

I can remember when a beer can had some heft to it, not the thin aluminum ones we have now,..

I just thought my grip was getting stronger. Well, I can't crush a long neck still. However, it's rather easy to crush a cheapo Fram filter. If a rock, raccoon, opossum etc. bumps my oil filter, I'd rather strongly prefer something stronger than the bud can protecting my engine from letting all the oil flow out.

Some people will always buy the cheapest of the cheap and find some way to justify it. That's what keeps a lot of people employed at some of the lower paying factory jobs. The bottom line is that after working for over the last 20 years in warranty claims and going over actuarial statistics, it's impossible to not notice some patterns. You ever wonder why some people buy a vehicle and get 200k trouble free miles out of it and others buy the same vehicle and have nothing but trouble? Sure, some has to do with driving habits, but it mostly has to do with how it's maintained and the quality of the materials and fluids used to maintain the vehicle. Working with ASE Master techs every single week, I'd be a fool to ever put anything Fram on something after knowing what I know. There is a reason Fram is generally the cheapest of the cheap when it comes to filters, and it's not because they are just nice guys.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Knowing what I do and what I do for a living, nobody will ever convince me that Fram isn't at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to quality. But, like I've said before, I'm sure there's someone out there somewhere driving a Yugo that's been perfect saying "I don't know what you guys are talking about when you say a Yugo isn't great". Life would be boring without choices. Unfortunately, it seems that Fram gets the people who can least afford a major engine breakdown as their typical customer. That's the sad part.

 

[Dargo]

The SAE does testing. The oil filter comparison websites do not.

They test for absolute minimum standards that must be met for a filter to be sold. I don't know about you, but I'm not impressed with using the worst that passed a no sell or okay to sell test. You do know that Fram actively scours the net every week shutting down test after test results that prove their filters are junk. They are a big company and a lot of unknowing people or foolish people buy their products. They can afford lots of attorneys.

The average consumer advocate trying to just help out his fellow consumer cannot afford nor has the desire to fight Fram in court for years to prove their product is crap. I've taken the same attitude; I'll tell you that, for a fact, Fram filters are at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to quality. Other than that, I really, really don't care what you use. I will tell you that like me, many people will close the hood on a used vehicle and walk away if they see a Fram filter on it. In that aspect I sort of care. Otherwise, use a beer can with toilet paper in it if it's cheaper for you. Makes me no difference. I don't make oil filters, I don't sell oil filters and I don't own stock in a single oil filter company.

 

[KennyV]

So visually it's not as good in your opinion as other brands, hardly scientific. But that's exactly what is being said over at Bob's. They work OK but for the money you can get a better filter.

Actually what I was trying to say was: Don't rely on what I have seen... You cut a few open, there are better tools than hacksaws to use. You make a determination based on what you discover using sight touch smell taste whatever.
I would never say they work OK... as I did mention, there are a lot of engines built that never had any type of oil filter, some are still running. You will not necessarily get an engine failure due to a poorly designed filter. BUT if you choose to put a filter on your engine, it makes sense to me to try to put a better rather than the worst money can buy.

I have known people that buy new cars every 2 to 3 years that NEVER change oil, let alone oil & filter. They would have no scientific opinion of filters either.
Like has been said... It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got... KennyV

 

[rmully]

So who makes the best filters for diesel tractors??

 

[KennyV]

So who makes the best??

I don't think there really is an answer to that...
I can think of a few contenders for that question...

However (in my mind) I think I have an informed 'guess' as to who markets the worst... or at least closest to the worst. KennyV

 

[bp fick]

So who makes the best filters for diesel tractors??

Gotta pay a little for a better filter, but not that much more. Your tractor's OEM branded filter. They'll stand behind it. Top notch Purolater is highly respected. Hastings and Amsoil made by Baldwin/Hastings. Very highly rated. FleetGuard. They have a big following in the commercial circles.

Only buy one filter a year for my 'Bota, so Hastings it is for me. Only costs me a buck or two more than a typical, Fram type. YMMV

 

[Dargo]

Gotta pay a little for a better filter, but not that much more. Your tractor's OEM branded filter. They'll stand behind it. Top notch Purolater is highly respected. Hastings and Amsoil made by Baldwin/Hastings. Very highly rated. FleetGuard. They have a big following in the commercial circles.

Only buy one filter a year for my 'Bota, so Hastings it is for me. Only costs me a buck or two more than a typical, Fram type. YMMV

I gotta agree with you. I'm sure there are other good ones, but I'm one of those who like the attitude "don't fix it if it ain't broken", so the ones you mentioned are all fine with me.

 

[KWentling]

I know Dodge Cummins engines had an issue with the glue used in Fram filter construction coming loose and plugging piston cooling nozzels causing pistons to melt. I got a bulliten in the mail to that effect and there were other manufacturers on their do not use list that included Wix and one or two others I don't remember. There were also issues with the rubber gaskets blowing out and canisters cracking in cold weather. All those issues were resolved by the manufacturers. I too have seen the cutaways and Frams are poorly made compared to any other filter. I know they sell millions of them and probably have very few failures. I've used them before in a pinch, but I'll stick with my Fleetguards and Wixs whenever possible.

Kim