General "getting started" questions about building a barn

[Wagtail]

Just had a thought... you might need to consider an area regarding extra roof-frame support if you're considering a winch/block'n'tackle for hoisting things. It's a bugger to re-engineer later.

Whirly-gig roof ventilators are a standard way of dissipating heat (and fumes) down here. I believe that you can shut/partially shut them down to retain heat in the winter

Oh and when I mentioned the orientation of my shed facing South, please remember that I'm in the southern hemisphere so the sun tracks across the North.

 

[oldtimer 66]

A couple pictures of my building, 40' x 60' steel clear span Sharron Steel Bldgs. 26 gage galvalume sheeting. Built 1991, 14' side walls 3-12 pitch 4' over hang 1.5' on gable ends. One exterior man door, one 12' x 12' garage door, one 14' X 12' slider door. Center partition wall with steel interior man door, steel galvanize purlins and girts Non expandable end walls, middle columns are 6 gage with a 18" section, single sided weld, 40' X 30' heated with 4.0" reinforced concrete with wire and 1.0 insulation board and 40' X 30' not heated with gravel floor, 6" x 72" rolled insulation with reinforced poly in heated side, 2" in non heated side, 100,000 BTU Reznor, heater, original gutters gone due to ice. 200 amp dedicated service all electrics in conduit. Water is piggy backed from my home. Cost in 1991 dollars $40K. High pressure sodium lights 400 watts $800 used, interior walls are steel roof decking 22 gage approx. $900. Plus a lot of other incidentals and toys.

One of your questions concerned hanging shelves and or any thing from the interior walls of a steel build. The roof decking could not have been a better fit for my interior walls. I put down another base angle and the roof decking is screwed between the middle girt and the new bottom base angle, they are 8' and 9' high respectively. I painted it bright white when initially installed but 24 years later it is starting to show it's age. I have done a lot of arcing and sparking inside my building. I use self drilling screws to attach anything to the walls. .31 hex. The green shelving is attached to the walls with the SD screws. The bottom edge of the shelving just catches the 10 block for vertical support. I can sweep under all of the shelving. Non of the shelving is sitting on the floor. Everything else show on the walls is fully supported by the roof decking, the bottom base angle and the middle girt. I have been buying the garden hose brackets from HF cutting them in half and screwing them to the walls the with the SD screws. They make excellent hooks. I have a one block exposure, 10" block, on a separate footer, between the column piers. The concrete floor on the heated side is also pined to that block. Maybe this will give you some ideas. Later.

 

[Industrial Toys]

We have built a few buildings now. They are never big enough! I like my last building but if it had been two or three feet deeper, it would have served my needs better. I calculated my backhoe length, and that was what I needed but it's very handy to have another attachment sitting in front of the machine and as such, I have to swing the backhoe off to one side when parking.

I really don't care much for wood. It is such a temporary material, prone to fire and the woodpeckers take a liking to it. But it is rustic looking and we chose on a couple of buildings to go with board and baton but have the buidlings sitting on a highly reinforce eight foot wall, four feet out of the ground. This should extend the life of the board and baton by a good amount.

Polycarbonate doors. Put two in, 13 X 13 feet. Absolutely love the light they let in and wish I could have afforded them for all the doors of my newest building and my old buildings as well.

 

[EddieWalker]

You didn't say if you where planning on building this yourself or hiring it out. From what I understand reading your post, and the size of building you want, I'm thinking you will hire it out. You also said that you want a cement slab floor. Going with concrete, I would strongly suggest you look at a metal building. Mueller Metal Buildings is all over Texas and hopefully there is one in your area. I would go to Steel Buildings, Metal Buildings, Metal Roofing | Mueller, Inc and find the closest location to where you want to build. I would make an appointment with one of their design guys and talk to him about what you think you want, and listen to what he can offer you.

Things like roll up doors depend on how big of a tractor you want to get into the building. Wall height will go from there. I have 12 foot walls in my shop right now, but I have plans to build another shop that will only have ten foot walls. For me, that is the lowest wall height I would want for a shop just because of the door height, and also because of handling sheets of plywood.

Having a half bathroom in there is also very nice.

Lots of doors are great, but they also take away from wall space.

If you go with a metal building, then just frame out the area you want to store stuff and cover the wooden stud walls in OSB or plywood.

Be sure you have the space for the size shop you want and enough room outside the building to grade water away from the building. Water is always going to be the enemy, and getting rid of it is crucial.

Texas heat and metal are just part of life. When building, get it insulated, but unless you are going to enclose a smaller area, don't even pretend to think there is any way of cooling it or warming it. Tall ceilings and big spaces make that just about impossible. I have fans in my shop, but when it gets to a certain temperature, you just have to stop and do something else.

Venting does not cool a building. It eliminates condensation. Venting is air flow. Air flow over the underside of the metal removes the moisture that builds up from condensation. The ribs on a metal building are the way air gets into the building and allows it to exit through the peak of the building.

You are being smart to start your planning early and get as much information as you can.

Eddie

 

[merlynr]

.

this is one cell phone pic I snapped of my sil's barn which is 90% complete although this shows one end complete.
It's on a poured foundation and built like a house with 16" studs and 12' walls. He put on overhang which really slowed down completion and also the two tone was quite a bit harder than just one color. The size is 35x50 with a 15x35 carport with 2' shorter roofline on the other end which is not shown on the one pic I have. We've worked on it off and on weekends all winter.

 

[NewfieDan]

I had an issue with a shop that was built by the previous owner here. The shop was basically built by removing trees and top soil. This left the floor of the shop as a low spot. Over the years and regular flooding of the shop it caused rot on the framing. Had to call in a contractor to build a knee wall under the existing wall.

When planning the slab also consider a knee wall. A short wall under the actual structure. This will help keep out the pests and keep out any water if it is a little low. In my garage where the toys are I put in all the lugs at 4ft off the ground. This let me put in a bench any where I wanted without moving an outlet.

You mentioned heat in winter. You most likely need very little down there, but what source are you considering? Gas, electric?

For the size of the building you are planning I would put in 14ft high door. This would also make your walls a lot higher, at least 15-16ft. But IMHO you never know what the future will bring. This will also give you room for a vehicle lift for mtce, or for classic car storage.

 

[Rustyiron]

I'd take a step back and think about your shop (size) by use. Myself, in my "shop" I don't want a bunch of stuff in the way, it's a shop, and not for piling crap in. Enough room to have an area for an ongoing project, while allways having a nice open "bay" for the quick oil change or what ever. This area might also be where you want A/C and a decent insulation pkg. As somone mentioned a toilet & sink might be on your list. This might alter your thinking on const. methods/materials. IMHO a "stick built" bldg. insulates & finishes easier and better than a steel (framed) bldg. Now for your other needs of basically storage, esp for tractors & implements, they can be in a simple lean to with a dirt floor. Metal framed or "pole" building take your pick. The last need you mentioned was storage with pallet racks, to me that's kinda in between the other 2 as I'd want a concrete floor, but prolly no need to heat or cool it.
It's a hard decision and I've built a many shop or building for my self. I've learned that this way of thinking or designing (by use) has worked for me. I'm a big fan of lean to's for cheap out of the direct weather storage. You might even think of 2 seperate bldgs. A stand alone shop would be expandable in any direction, and another storage bldg. could be split in half with "warehouse" section and a simple dirt floor covered "machine shed" type section.

 

[oldtimer 66]

Just an FYI, on a steel clear span building like mine I could have positioned the building so that I could put the main door or doors on the gabled ends with a expandable end wall or walls. With that said I could have put in say a 14' X 14' or maybe higher door with only 14' side walls. Inside I have approx. 19' to the peak. Later.

 

[ustmd]

Texas heat and metal are just part of life. When building, get it insulated, but unless you are going to enclose a smaller area, don't even pretend to think there is any way of cooling it or warming it. Tall ceilings and big spaces make that just about impossible. I have fans in my shop, but when it gets to a certain temperature, you just have to stop and do something else.

Venting does not cool a building. It eliminates condensation. Venting is air flow. Air flow over the underside of the metal removes the moisture that builds up from condensation. The ribs on a metal building are the way air gets into the building and allows it to exit through the peak of the building.

Eddie

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

We are near Austin and have a 30 x 50 metal barn with a clerestory roof that peaks at ~18ft (and is vented), 10 ft roll up doors at opposite ends and is insulated. Even with both roll up doors open in the summer, it still gets HOT. The temp outside will be 100, and the barn will be almost the same temp. Insulation just slows the rate of temp change, not stop and when the night time temp is only 15 degrees cooler than the day time temp, the build with equalize to the environment very quickly.

If you want a place to work in late June/July/August, you need to build a smaller area in the shop and put in an AC unit.

 

[astrohip]

Wow, some really good ideas here... sorry if I don't reply to each.

oldtimer66 -- really slick the way your shelves don't sit on the ground. Cleaning under racks has always been an issue; hanging them would solve that. Also using roof decking for walls.

I-toys -- Polycarbonate doors. Never heard of them until this. Great idea.

E-Walker -- definitely a hire out job. Just went to Mueller's site; there's one in College Station, about 40 miles away. Just d/l'ed a brochure. Eye candy for barn lovers!

Newfie Dan -- heat's not much of an issue. Could run propane, I have a 1,000 gallon tank about 100 yards away. But it will probably be easier to just use electric heat, since I have to run elec service anyway. As others have said, the problem will be getting rid of heat, not creating it.

Rustyiron -- good points (on use vs design). In reading y'alls comments, I've been thinking about making a larger "under cover but not totally enclosed" area, for as you say, tractors & implements. Which is about half of what I store. Maybe a hard pack floor, with a roof and a back wall. Depends on what slabs cost these days, that may drop the price, give me a place for outdoor equip, and free up a lot of the barn. Need to do some thinking, esp about how much to spend.

Appreciate all the feedback on the heat, from you fellow Texans. Right now I have a one wall structure, so I get a good breeze (when there is one). Need to think about the heat aspect. Fans maybe, like Big *** Fans, or maybe wall fans, to try to keep air moving. That and good design, with doors that allow breezes.

More to think about...