GM 4.5L Diesel May Still Be Alive

[Diamondpilot]

Not trying to start anything here but have a real question so all you bow tie boys and girls calm down. How are the brakes on the current GM trucks? The last one I had, a 05 3500 Dmax, was not impressive. I never had any toubles with them in the 9 months I had it but my 04 F-250 Powerstroke had much better brakes. I know also the brakes on my uncles 97 2500 diesel Suburban were no comparison to the 99 F-350 Powerstroke I had at the time also.

My neighbor has a 07 3500 Classic Dmax and he has had 2 sets of warped rotors in about 60,000 miles. I have heard the 08's and later had better brakes but have not heard. He does use his truck. About 1/2 the miles are pulling a 14,000# 5th wheel.

So how are the brakes?

Chris

 

[Builder]

Not trying to start anything here but have a real question so all you bow tie boys and girls calm down. How are the brakes on the current GM trucks? The last one I had, a 05 3500 Dmax, was not impressive. I never had any toubles with them in the 9 months I had it but my 04 F-250 Powerstroke had much better brakes. I know also the brakes on my uncles 97 2500 diesel Suburban were no comparison to the 99 F-350 Powerstroke I had at the time also.

My neighbor has a 07 3500 Classic Dmax and he has had 2 sets of warped rotors in about 60,000 miles. I have heard the 08's and later had better brakes but have not heard. He does use his truck. About 1/2 the miles are pulling a 14,000# 5th wheel.

So how are the brakes?

Chris

My GMC has 55,000 miles and still on first set of factory brakes. At inspection 3 months ago, there was still >25% left on them. I might get 75,000 miles out of my factory brakes! I mostly pull a 12K trailer to work with either my M-7040 or a mini-ex, etc. . Lots of stop & go travel. I'd give the brakes an A+ after 3&1/2 years of working my truck to make a living. Brakes are far better than previous Fords I owned & towed with extensively.

On the other hand, all my Fords needed at least one set of brakes every annual inspection (~20K miles) mostly fronts. Had warped Ford rotors about every other inspection. Fords at the time were known for warped rotor issues. Hopefully that has changed. Also had to replace "lifetime" ball joints about every other inspection, too. I probably spent $1,500 per year on annual inspections for my F-350 & F-450 once they got to be > 3yrs old. Even worse, I also spent over $10,000 on failed Ford transmissions once the factory warranties expired on both trucks. :ashamed:

That's another great thing about my GMC Ford doesn't offer. My '07 GMC came with a 100,000 mile factory powertrain warranty.

The only thing I liked better about the Ford brakes is they had a better pedal feel to them. The GM brake pedal has more travel to it and took some time to get used to.

 

[Builder]

Just got off the cell phone with my plumbing subcontractor and asked him same question. He has a '04 F-350 4x4 and asked him about his brakes. Says he's been through at least 4 sets of brakes. He's at 110,000 miles and has never towed a trailer with it. That's about the same average miles between brake replacement that I had on my Fords in the past. 20-25K on a set of brakes is way to short.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I could have guessed on the above answer. I guess the brand loyalty flow deep. I have gotten about 60,000 miles out of all my Fords front brakes. I have never changed the rears. The 99 was not nearly as good as the 04 and 06 and they would warp rotors like you said after about 2 years. I never had any problem with the 05 Dmax but like you said the pedal was spongy and the truck was traded for something better after 9 months. They did not feel as strong either. My Dodge made it about 50,000 on the fronts if I remember right. I guess a lot has to do where you live and how you drive. Just like MPG.

My Nissan Titan does not do as well as my last F-150, a 2007, in breaking. It does have larger aftermarket tires, more rolling mass, and a 2" factory lift so I guess that may have something to do with it. While I like the truck the F-150 has much better brakes, power slider rear window I really miss, got better MPG, and had a more comfortable interior.

Chris

 

[FlaDon]

I could have guessed on the above answer. I guess the brand loyalty flow deep. I have gotten about 60,000 miles out of all my Fords front brakes. I have never changed the rears. The 99 was not nearly as good as the 04 and 06 and they would warp rotors like you said after about 2 years. I never had any problem with the 05 Dmax but like you said the pedal was spongy and the truck was traded for something better after 9 months. They did not feel as strong either. My Dodge made it about 50,000 on the fronts if I remember right. I guess a lot has to do where you live and how you drive. Just like MPG.

My Nissan Titan does not do as well as my last F-150, a 2007, in breaking. It does have larger aftermarket tires, more rolling mass, and a 2" factory lift so I guess that may have something to do with it. While I like the truck the F-150 has much better brakes, power slider rear window I really miss, got better MPG, and had a more comfortable interior.

Chris

It all depends on how you drive and the vehicle itself.
77 Chevy Caravan went 105K on the factory front brakes, 125K on the rear and had not cut into the discs or drums.
79 AMX went 75K before needing front brakes including new rotors.
1981 Ford E-150 went less than 1000 miles before the front brakes had to be redone. By 5K it had had 3 complete sets of brakes on the front. Ford's defective plastic pistons were the cause. Went 100K more on the third set.
Plymouth Horizon, no brakes in 125K miles.
Ford Tiempo, no brakes in 110K.
Park Avenue, no brakes in 130K.
2003 Impala, 50K on first set of front brakes. Rotors warped after cutting and had to be replaced.
91 Chevy Van 20, new brakes at 75K
2001 Chevy 3500, original brakes still on it at 99K.

As usual,YMMV.

 

[Builder]

So you see, it's not all about brand loyalty Contrary to what some Ford loyalists would believe, others have Fords that eat brakes rapidly, too. :laughing:

Anyways, back to the topic of the 4.5L GM diesel. I'm reading 22MPG highway and 18 around town. :thumbsup: With over 300 HP and way more toque down low than a gasser could dream of, I think that could really revive the large SUV industry. If GM makes it happen, they will take a bigger share of the SUV market.

I'd buy one.

 

[Diamondpilot]

While 22 mpg is ok its not that big of a gain. I can get about 20 in my Titan at 1500 rpm and 55 mpg with 4.10 gears. Step it up to 70 and it drops considerably running 2,000 rpm but only getting 14.5. My F-150 could never get better than 18 but averaged 15.5. Heck, my neighbors stock 07 3500 Dmax gets 21 when its running.

GM claims the 5.3 on the 1/2 with active fuel management getting 20 mpg as the base engine. Going up 2 mpg and paying a premium up front for the diesel engine and then the $.30 extra for the fuel will not do it for me. If they could squeak 30 out of it then they would have something. Of course it will be better towing with a diesel, thats a no brainer but I would venture to guess if you took all the 1/2 tons sold in the last 10 years and figured out what percent of the time they tow it would be somewhere around 5-10%.

I would not be in line for any 1/2 ton diesel, no matter what brand, unless it got 50% better economy from the gas engine like the current diesel 3/4 and 1 ton trucks do.

Chris

 

[Builder]

Then IMO, you are the exception with fuel economy. I get an honest 13.5 MPG in my Dmax. It's always at about 8,000 lbs and driven hard or towing. I did a rough survey more than a few times on the jobsite. The diesel guys were the same as me-all brands got ~13 MPG-they even showed me their readouts. The gas guys got ~11. The exception was one of my sub's V-10 Fords got ~9 MPG. I've never owned a diesel truck, GM or Ford, that averaged more than 14 MPG and I've logged about a 1/2 million miles on ~14 diesel pickups.

Our Tahoe gets 14 MPG with the bigger gas V-8. If GM could offer me 18-22 on a diesel, I'm in.

With most surveys showing a trade in value of $5,000 more for a diesel with 100K at trade in than a comparable gas truck, there's really very little arguement against paying 6K up front for a diesel. Over a 100K ownership time frame, you'd save more than $1,000 in fuel, get the torque and towing performance to enjoy.

 

[JESSE1]

The diesel will get better mileage than a gas engine but it's not the difference it used to be. My '78 Bronco w/400 engine would get 8-10 mpg. Traded it on a new '83 GMC Jimmy with the 6.2 diesel and it would get 20+ mpg. My '07 Expedition EL 4x4 will get 20 mpg interstate driving. My '08 F-450 pickup w/6.4 diesel will average 11.5 mpg. I'd like a diesel in an SUV but it's going to have to get much better mileage (25+mpg)than the gas engine in my Expedition before I'd pay a premium for it.

 

[Builder]

Don't forget: Diesels fetch about 5K more in trade in/resale value. You don't lose all the money you pay up front.

I think another thing we lose sight of is we all have different types of driving. Mine's all stop/go/hills short frequent trips. Virtually no highway travel.