Gooseneck, 5th Wheel, or Bumper pull?

[JD3520]

I was wondering about the 10,000# pull also and found this:

The expanded size and power of the new Tundra will be reflected in its ability to tow over 10,000 pounds. To achieve this towing capacity every major component was designed for maximum strength, durability and reliability over the long haul. This will be accomplished with an all-new 5.7-liter i-Force V8 engine manufactured at Toyota's Alabama engine plant. The V8 will be mated to a new heavy-duty six-speed automatic transmission. In addition to the new powertrain, Tundra will also come equipped with heavy-duty front disc brakes with four-piston calipers and vented rotors increased by nearly one and one-half inches, and standard rear disc brakes. High capacity cooling and electrical systems will help Tundra tow heavy loads through the toughest weather. Finally, Tundra will ride on a new rock-solid chassis platform with 30 percent higher tensile strength steel.

found it here:
Chicago Auto Show: Toyota goes BIG with 2007 Tundra - Autoblog

 

[KAB]

You might want to wait until more spec's come out. What size bed? Will you be able to make turns safely with a GN? If they use a short bed (less than 6.5') it might not be rated for towing a GN trailer. (warranty issues?) Also, what will the payload be? A normal hitch mounted trailer has a recommended tongue weight 10-15% trailer weight (also properly equipped would include a weight distributing hitch) where a GN has a recommended pin weight of 15-25% trailer weight. These differences might mean that the truck (not combined weight but just the truck weight) is overloaded.

In all honesty, if you plan on towing in that range you would do best to get a "3/4 ton" truck. The truck manufactures are/have been playing the numbers game - My truck is bigger than your truck. Yes, they do beef up some components but still not to a 3/4 ton state.

Good Luck and Be Carefull Out There.


Kurt

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Having just bought a tractor, I'm now looking for a trailer to put it on. I was hoping the knowledgeable people here could help educate me on some of the differences.

I'm planning on buying one of the new Tundra pickups, which pull 10,600 pounds. Much as I'd love a dump trailer, it probably doesn't work for me now price/weight/size wise.

The question is, what are the advantages of the different hitch arrangements? Obviously, a bumper hitch leaves the truck bed empty, which is good. But is it noticeably harder to tow than a gooseneck? And how about 5th Wheel style hitches - are those even made for trailers?

Thanks for the advice,

charles

I've owned 2 Toyota Mini's and one Tundra. #1, #2, and #3 best trucks I've ever owned..... I always said if they came out with a 3/4 ton or 1 ton, I'd be first in line for one. Looks like I better get in line, huh?

For years, I stuck with a 10,000 lb bumper pull equipment trailer. It served the purpose. 4 years ago, I bought a new 20'+5' 14,000 GVWR gooseneck trailer. After 4 years, you couldn't GIVE me another bumper pull. (Well, maybe GIVE me one....) The first thing you'll notice is less thrashing the truck when loading and unloading. Next is the lack of "porpoising" with a gooseneck compared to a bumper hitch. That's when the front of the trailer and back of the truck bob up and down with undulations in the road. As far as loading height. Goosenecks generally have less abrupt angle to the dovetail and ramps. Sure, it's a few inches higher (on "deck-over" styles) but loading seems easier to me. Big plus for the deck-overs....No interference from fenders when side loading. (i.e. fork lift loading lumber)

The hitch.... Get a B&W "hide-a-ball" style hitch. A quick pull of a release lever in the fenderwell allows the ball to be removed and flipped over to make it flush with the bed. You don't have a ball in the way when you aren't trailering. Most WELL MADE (read well engineered) hitches place the ball a few inches forward of rear axle centerline.

 

[dmccarty]

I went to the link and they just repeated the 10K tow value. They mentioned that the truck would have three cab configurations. The tow values on the trucks I have looked at in the past depended on the cab. Regular cab weighs less thus the truck can haul/tow more.

The truck sounds like a 150/1500 class truck. It has a 6.5 foot bed. They don't mention engine HP/Torque or the weight of the truck. I don't know if the Big Three 150/1500 class trucks can tow 10K or not since I have looked since 2001. If they don't and this truck does pull 10K the Big Three have even more problems. The new Ford truck with the 6.4L engine can haul over 4,000 pounds. My 2002 Ford in the same configuration is 2200-2400 pounds. Can't remember the GCVR of the new truck.

I'm still skeptical until I see the other stats on the truck. I have a full size F350 73L TD SRW CC with an 8 foot bed that weighs in at 7700 pounds. Might be 7500 now that the tool box is out. That means the most I can tow is 12,500 pounds. With 2400 pounds on the truck. A 10K tow would put the Toyoto in a 350 class? Maybe a F250 class today.

Later,
Dan

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

I believe Toyota is jumping in with Nissan on this one. I think there Titan is rated to haul like 9400. However the truck is still a 1/2ton. I recently sold an 05 F-150 sc with the 5.4 it was rated at 9900. However that was a complete joke. Why anyone would attempt such a stupid feat and try to tow that kind of a load is beyond me. I know that toyota's are a rock solid vehicle and last forever but for my money if they want to step into the HD truck market they need to do more than just rebadge the tundra they need to build new from the ground up as a 3/4 or 1 ton towing machine. Just my two cents.

Matt

 

[Highbeam]

I own a 10k rated bumper pull trailer. 18' long with 2' dovetail. I really really like it though to be fair I have not towed a GN equipment trailer to compare.

I too have a hard time backing a small utility trailer, but, the much longer equipment trailer with its axles farther from the bumper is super easy to back up. The longer trailer reacts slower and jacknives are not a problem. I can put all kinds of big stuff in my empty truck bed while towing.

A half ton is going to be hard to set up properly for GN towing because the payload capacity of the half ton is so small. 20% is a typical amount of weight placed on the tow vehicle. That's 2000 lbs in the bed of that half ton truck and most are not capable of that. 10% tongue weight is needed for bumper pull and the 1000 lbs while high, is easier to handle.

I have zero sway issues as should anyone with a properly set up and loaded bumper pull trailer.

One more reason not to go GN, since there are many reasons in favor. When you make a corner with a GN, the trailer tracks inside the corner meaning you have to take every corner real wide to avoid putting the trailer in the inside ditch. I have a corner like this on my property with deep ditches on the shoulder so when people came to visit with their RVs I would watch to make sure they didn't fall into the ditches. The bumperpulls just went right on through but the much shorter 5th wheel guy had to go extra wide and do a "back up" in order to make the corner.

If you stick with a half ton truck then I would stick with bumper pull, If and when I go to a bigger truck then a similarly priced GN will be much more attractive.

 

[Dargo]

I believe Toyota is jumping in with Nissan on this one. I think there Titan is rated to haul like 9400. However the truck is still a 1/2ton. I recently sold an 05 F-150 sc with the 5.4 it was rated at 9900. However that was a complete joke. Why anyone would attempt such a stupid feat and try to tow that kind of a load is beyond me. I know that toyota's are a rock solid vehicle and last forever but for my money if they want to step into the HD truck market they need to do more than just rebadge the tundra they need to build new from the ground up as a 3/4 or 1 ton towing machine. Just my two cents.

Matt

Yup, I'd have to agree that if you want to pull 9900 with a 5.4 Triton, you'd better leave a week or two early because you sure aren't going to get there very fast! The Expedition I had with a 5.4 seemed weak with nothing behind it. If I drove on a 2 lane highway that had many hills, it constantly dropped two gears and the engine had to scream to keep even close to a constant speed. I don't know if the Toyota V8 is a lot more powerful, but it better be if it's going to pull over 10k. Also, to simply be blunt, it's just flat out not a good idea to pull 10k behind a 1/2 ton pickup. I don't care what the "ratings" are. I've driven overloaded 1/2 ton pickups and they just do not handle the load well.

Even though I strongly agree with "farmwithjunk" on the GN being vastly superior to a bumper pull trailer, I wouldn't consider putting a GN setup in a 1/2 ton pickup. I'd think that some of the trailer shops may even balk at installing such. If you're going to stay with a 1/2 ton pickup, I don't see any option other than stay with the bumper pull trailer and deal with it's drawbacks.

 

[Charlesaf3]

Highbeam that ditch comment rings true, and might be a deciding factor. I'll have to think on it.

Basically, at this point in my life, I won't buy it if it isn'tToyota. I've had consistently great experiences with them, including the 200k mile 1988 landcruiser parked outside that starts right up. I'd rather tow less if indeed the Tundra does tow less, but I tend to believe Toyotas claims - they've never led me wrong.

I think they are making a big push at the big 3 with this, and determined to get it right. Only way to get what Toyota calls "serious truckers" to look at a Toyota as more than a toy is too put something out there that outperforms everything in its class.

They have a long and short bed, and 3 cab models. Not sure what the high tow will work out to be. But I'm leaning towards 4 door short bed, so that might rule out GN there.

 

[Highbeam]

Who cares if the Toyota can pull 10k? Your tractor is not heavy at all and the appropriate sized trailer will keep the combination in the 6000 lb arena which is certainly toyotowable.

You may have noticed I own a 10k bumper pull and have a truck that is NOT rated highly enough to tow it at 10k. All my hitch gear and tires will allow 10k so that if I get a big manly truck I could use all the capacity of the trailer. My point is that I agree with your thoughts about buying too much trailer for the expected load.

 

[Charlesaf3]

The tractor's a bit heavier than you might think, with foamed tires (extra 1000 I gather) mmm, and backhoe, not to say what random implements I might want to tow. But yeah, a payload of 6k after deducting trailer weight would probably be more than enough. But I'm a lot happier being well within the margins of my equipment, rather than pushing it.

For those who say 10k is too much for a half ton truck, why is that? (Fundamentally, I think the issue is that I've enver really figured out what makes a truck half ton, 3/4 ton, or full).

I have found Toyota Tow ratings to be consistently conservative in regards to the Toyotas I've owned, for what its worth. But no substitute for seeing the actual truck, and reading reviews when its out.