Heavy Duty Pickup Shootout

[Duffster]

just tell us.

I would like to see what Derek says first.

But I will give you a hint, it is the same for both and it is not a Regular license.

 

[schmism]

Say you have a Dodge 3500 with a 13k GVWR/26k GCWR towing a 14k GVWR trailer, what class license would you need?

Now take a F350 with a 13k GVWR/29k GCWR towing a 14k GVWR trailer, now what class of license would you need?

:confused2: in my state (IL) any vehicle towing more than 10K lbs, regardless of the size/weight/GCWR of the tow vehicle requires a class A license.

which if i read it right is exactly what Dmace says.

NOTE: there is some confusion due to DMV (lack of) clarity concerning a stickered/vin'd trailer with a 14K GVWR hauling empty. (trailer curb weight of 2500lbs) and what license is needed. Some interpret that to mean yes you need a class A because its capable of carrying over 10K lbs, others say because your scale weight is below 10K lbs you dont need a class A.

NOTE2: CDL requirement is subject to type and situation of vehicle. Such as RV/farm/fire dept does not require CDL but still requires the proper class A/B/C/D based on size/weight of vehicle and trailer if present.

 

[Duffster]

:confused2: in my state (IL) any vehicle towing more than 10K lbs, regardless of the size/weight/GCWR of the tow vehicle requires a class A license.

Even in IL the GCWR would still need to be over 26k before a 10k+ trailer would require a class A.

Class A
Any combination of vehicles with a Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds provided the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds. (Holders of a Class A license may, with appropriate endorsements, operate all vehicles within Class B, C and D.)

http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/departments/drivers/drivers_license/il_licens

 

[schmism]

Even in IL the GCWR would still need to be over 26k before a 10k+ trailer would require a class A.

incorrect based on the way i read the classes B/C/D

http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/publications/pdf_publications/dsd_x142.pdf

page 4 (your link did not work)

Class A
Any combination of vehicles with a Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds provided the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds. (Holders of a Class A license may, with appropriate endorsements, operate all vehicles within Class B, C and D.)

Class B
Any single motor vehical with a GVWR of 26,001 or more or any such vehical towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds...

class C says the same thing with an upper limit of GVWR 16K

so the ONLY way you can tow IN EXCESS of 10K lbs is via a class A. as both class B/C say NOT IN EXCESS of 10K lbs.

put another way the ONLY difference between class B and class A is your ability to tow over 10K lbs with a class A.

and FYI if i read the diffrence between class C and class D correctly.... if you want to tow ANYTHING behind you, (even a 300lb utility trailer) you cant do it on a class D... you must have a class C

 

[medicshawn]

NOTE2: CDL requirement is subject to type and situation of vehicle. Such as RV/farm/fire dept does not require CDL but still requires the proper class A/B/C/D based on size/weight of vehicle and trailer if present.

There is no requirement for a CDL or special endorsement for Fire trucks for example in Virginia. I drive a fire engine every day that doesn't require anything but a standard drivers license. The standard fire engine weighs 40,000-50,000. Our department has 2 tractor trailers for Haz Mat and technical rescue, and our ladder truck weigh in essence of 80,000. Just a plain old drivers license.

 

[schmism]

Just a plain old drivers license.

again thats were the state to state differences come in.

 

[RobertN]

I'm getting ready to get my Class B firefighter restricted. Class B FF restricted or Class B CDL required to operate fire apparatus out here in California.

The gist is designed for the transportation of of persons for compensation, or property and:
GVWR greater than 26001
Tow any vehicle with a GVWR of 10001 or more
Tows more than 1 vehicle or trailer
Has three or more axles

Exceptions:
driver of only fire fighting vehicles needs a Class B restricted

There is no requirement for a CDL or special endorsement for Fire trucks for example in Virginia. I drive a fire engine every day that doesn't require anything but a standard drivers license. The standard fire engine weighs 40,000-50,000. Our department has 2 tractor trailers for Haz Mat and technical rescue, and our ladder truck weigh in essence of 80,000. Just a plain old drivers license.

 

[jcmseven]

Sorry to get this back on topic a bit, but it is what it is. Coming from a blue oval man that branched out, truck for truck the GMC is tough to beat. I am honestly surprised the results were not larger, as they certainly seem that way on the road. I will say I am most happy that Ford's new 6.7L diesel is seemingly a really solid engine that they can modify and improve over the new few years. I had my doubts that they could pull off an in-house design but they have. These engines are also super quiet and refined. My neighbor just traded his 2004 6.0L on a 2011 6.7L and what a difference for him!!!

John M

 

[Dmace]

Quick question.

Say you have a Dodge 3500 with a 13k GVWR/26k GCWR towing a 14k GVWR trailer, what class license would you need?

Now take a F350 with a 13k GVWR/29k GCWR towing a 14k GVWR trailer, now what class of license would you need?

If the actual weight of the Dodge and trailer was under 26k lbs (within manufacturer spec) then it would only require a regular license since it's FACTORY RATED under 26,001 lbs GCWR and as long as you do not exceed that, you can tow what ever the difference is between 26k and your truck's actual weight.

So my 2010 Dodge RAM 3500 (26k GCWR) weighs 12,000 lbs with truck, payload, and driver. That means I can legally tow 14,000 lbs and stay within the FACTORY RATED GCWR of 26,000 lbs and not need a CDL. If I unload the bed, run 1/4 tank and lower my trucks weight to 9,500 lbs, I can now tow 16,500lbs without a CDL. The GVWR of the trailer DOES NOT MATTER when it comes to GCWR, it only comes into play if the total weight of the TRAILER exceeds it. As far as the GCWR, it is only dependent on the ACTUAL WEIGHT of the trailer and NOT the GVWR.

The Ford is FACTORY RATED to exceed 26k lbs GCWR which means you are now limited to 10k lbs without a CDL-A license EVEN IF YOUR TOTAL WEIGHT IS UNDER 26K.

So my 2010 Ford F-350 (29k GCWR) weighs 12,000 lbs with truck, payload, and driver. No matter what the weight of the truck is I am limited to 10,000 lbs towing without a CDL because Ford says my truck and trailer can weigh over 26,000 lbs. Even if that truck only weighs 9,500 lbs, you are still limited to 10,000 lbs because of that FACTORY RATED GCWR.

You seem to get caught up with the idea that the GCWR is GVWR (truck) plus the GVWR (trailer). THIS IS WRONG!
From Ford's website:

GCWR (Gross Combination Weight Rating)
Weight specified by the manufacturer as the maximum loaded weight of a towing vehicle and its trailer. The sum of the loaded vehicle weight of the truck and trailer should not exceed the GCWR. GCWR = vehicle curb weight + payload + trailer weight + driver and passengers

Repeat: THE GCWR IS NOT GVWR+GVWR. GCWR IS CALCULATED ON ACTUAL WEIGHTS AND NOT GVWR'S.
The GCWR is simply the total WEIGHT that should not be exceeded and THAT NUMBER is what determines CDL requirements and NOT THE SUM OF THE TRUCK AND TRAILER'S GVWR's.

 

[Duffster]

class C says the same thing with an upper limit of GVWR 16K

so the ONLY way you can tow IN EXCESS of 10K lbs is via a class A. as both class B/C say NOT IN EXCESS of 10K lbs.

put another way the ONLY difference between class B and class A is your ability to tow over 10K lbs with a class A.

and FYI if i read the difference between class C and class D correctly.... if you want to tow ANYTHING behind you, (even a 300lb utility trailer) you cant do it on a class D... you must have a class C

Incorrect,

You can tow over 10k with a class D(or a C or a B), as long as the GCWR doesn't exceed 26k.

Class D
Any single vehicle with a GVWR 16,000 pounds or less that is not designed to transport 16 or more people; or

Any single vehicle with a GVWR 16,000 pounds or less that is not used in the transportation of hazardous materials which requires the vehicle to be placarded; or

Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 16,000 pounds or less towing any vehicle providing the GCWR does not exceed 26,000 pounds.

http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/departments/drivers/drivers_license/il_license_class.html

The only significant difference between IL and the federal standard is that CDL's start at 16k GVWR instead of 26k GVWR.