PaulChristenson said:
Correct me, if I'm wrong, but some things I see in your threads is
1.) an apparent lack of QC on the PT...
2.) some design deficiencies of the unit...and some of the accessories
Paul,
I'm not sure where you're going with this... but perhaps I can "head it off at the pass....."
PTs are unique in the market place. They're "hand-crafted" by Americans in rural Appalachia by a privately-owned company of probably less than 50 employees total (that's just guessing, but it is a SMALL town and a SMALL company). They're not mass produced on a "Detroit-type assembly line" that may have moved off-shore, or originated there ala Mahindra, Kubota, Kioti, Yanmar, etc. If ANY robotics are involved, they are likely involved in the production of commercial components (wheel motors, pumps, valves, hoses, etc) from one of the companies they purchase their components from...
What PT is selling is steel -- much of it flat stock -- that has been cut and assembled by hand, in jigs at least in some cases. They MAY (don't know) have some CNC-controlled lathes, mills or plasma cutters, but that is LIKELY as automated as they get. All the more-complex parts (motors, pumps, valves, etc.) are after-market components.
What is unique about them is their initial design, and how they are marketed and supported. (a) In addition to the base design of an articulating, oscillating tool-carrier, for example, they have hydraulically-actuated quick attaches [QA] while the "big boys" still use manual levers and pins if they have ANY type of QA at all. (b) When you call for support or parts, your feedback as an owner/user is one person away from the design engineers and the "assembly line workers" and your needed parts are shipped overnight with an accompanying hand-written invoice and ticket...
They're also designed and sold at a somewhat unique quality-level and price-point. (They are an intentional "compromise" in both design concept and in execution.) They are NOT competing head-to-head with machines targeted at commercial users, farmers, or "box-store" consumers -- think "rental store" quality/price and level of construction ... somewhere below commercial-user (ala Bobcat, JD, NH, etc.) but higher than mass-produced lawn/garden tractors (Murray, MTD, etc.). What they deliver is functionality and versatility that is about 1/2 the cost of similar machines (if they existed) that are produced by the "big boys."
For examples of the initial design concept, the PT-425, at roughly $11,000 base price (tractor + bucket) delivers a 25-HP gas machine with an 800-lb FEL with that hydraulically-activated QA that allows you to quickly attach mower decks (finish or rough-cut) in addition to construction-type implements, and will operate on 20-degree slopes and literally run circles (because of its articulation/oscillation) around either a CUT/SCUT or skidsteer. That's more lift capacity than either SCUTs or garden tractors at that price point -- made from steel thickness comparable to the SCUTs and much heavier-duty than the garden tractors that are priced at this point. Meanwhile, they provide "ride-on" functionality at a price-point similar to the "stand-on" Kangas, Dingos, etc. mini-skidsteers that have far less capacity for any of the corresponding PT implements, whether that be bucket size, lift capacity, trenching width, etc.
Similarly, at roughly $17,500 base price (tractor + bucket, not considering factory sales or discounts) you get a 30 HP diesel machine with 1200-lb FEL that operates safely on 30-degree slopes. That price is very competitive with mass-produced CUTs/SCUTs with that capacity and the gauge of steel used is comparable. Meanwhile, they provide versatily and maneuverability in addition to slope-capability that the SCUT/CUT simply cannot match. Corresponding skidsteers, with heavier construction (and the negatives of weight, lawn destruction, etc) are not as maneuvererable and would likely cost about twice that, for either the machine or any given attachment, but would have heavier-duty construction.
Now let's look at execution (i.e. manufacturing and support). My personal example is an older (new in Dec 2000) PT-425. I've encountered what I consider to be two design or manufacturing flaws/weaknesses. The first is the "roll-over" bar, shaft and linkage that dumps the bucket. While others like Mossroad (who has an identical machine as far as I can tell) have had no problems with theirs (at least to date), mine has broken and been replaced -- likely because of my abuse using the mini-hoe while running loaded tires all around (NOT recommended by the factory), meaning the machine won't "pucker" as readily, tranferring more force to these components than they were originally designed for... The cost of my replacement parts was roughly $250, plus shipping, and they arrived within 48 hours, and I paid $40 to get them welded up after I replaced them. (Compare that to main structural component part prices for a CUT/SCUT or piece of commercial equipment.) Meanwhile, based on feedback from owners/users, PT has since begun making the rollover bar out of heavier steel, solving the problem. The other "design weakness" I've encountered is with the tubeless tires on the attachments, and PT now offers (not sure if they're standard or an extra-cost option) solid-rubber tires that will take the abuse of the down-pressure from the FEL combined with rough use, solving that problem.
I think most PT owners are about as unique as the machines themselves -- we will "live with" some flaws in design or execution, helping the factory correct those problems in later production runs, in order to get the functionality, maneuverability, and versatility we enjoy, at a price point that no one else can compete with...
Sorry for the long-winded post, but I don't want anyone "bashing" these machines because they may not have the initial production quality of the the
perceived competition. IMO, the only true competitors are a few rare European-made machines such as the Avant (sold as a Gehl in the US), the Multi-one, etc., and they also cost around 50% more, if not even greater... meanwhile, parts availablity and support for them might not be even as good as the PTs, much less superior...
