How would you compare two HST transmissions?

[4570Man]

HST+ giving you 2 speeds ontop of the standard H/M/L is pretty much the main reason I'm only looking at a Kubota Grand over anybody else. I like the basic HST in my L3200, but want to upgrade to a cab &more toys like HST+. There are 3 kinds of HSTs as far as I can tell... Mechanical direct pedal control. Electronic control which gets you adjustable responsiveness, stall guard & some other handy features. HST+ which is all the electronic goodies + a 2 speed function for a shift on the fly high/low range. Kubota has a single treadle that controls forward & back where JD & most others use separate pedals for forward & reverse. It's almost a religious type preference for some. Personally I like the Kubota treadle as that's what I have & learned on. I could do pedals fine though.

The HST+ is great. It is a big improvement over the regular electronic control, and either one is far superior to the mechanical direct control. The biggest advantage to the direct control is my 30 year old B7100 HST still works as good as it did new. 30 years from now we won't be able to say the same for these electronic tractors.

 

[TSO]

LOL you guys are going a little overboard with your praise of the HST+ trans... Especially the person saying they're pretty much only looking at Kubota because of it.

It's a nice feature, yes. I've used it, yes. Does it make the tractor any more productive? I don't think it does. My MF1652 and my buddies Grand L5240 are about as directly comparable as you can get in this segment. Comparing my HST next to his (and I'm not sure who manufactures the HST trans is in my machine)... There is zero difference in actual productivity. We both push snow the same, we both p thatull dirt the same.

Now I'm not going to say that it's a "novelty" ... Because I do think that there may be occasional times when it would prevent you from having to shift from high to medium range, etc... BUT it's not making the leap to flying cars either.

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Back on topic, my HST is all mechanical, and I love it that way. Mechanical linkage also connects to operate the "auto throttle" function. It's all very simple and effective. The electro-servo ones I've used (Kioti and Kubota), I notice a hesitation, however slight. My pedals open the valve directly, and I feel that it allows more precise control.

But I'll agree that the downside to that is that the pedals to get harder to push the more you open the valve.

 

[4570Man]

Try running a lower power to weigh ratio and see if the HST+ isn't more productive. My L3240 isn't a whole lot lighter with drastically lower HP. The HST + saves a whole lot of range changing. My lowest gear ratio is lower in the HST plus. Without it I probably wouldn't be able to break traction while fully ballasted.

 

[TSO]

I used it in a L3540 also... again, I'm not shaming it, I'm sure there will be occasional times when it allows you to stay in a range without shifting to a different range... It's a nice feature. It's not reinventing HST tho, and certainly shouldn't be someone's deciding factor when picking a color

 

[TripleR]

Well, there is opinion then there is fact, some have trouble distinguishing between the two. I owned an L5030HSTC pre HST+ for several years then bought an L5740HSTC. I can say unequivocally, for me the HST+ is more productive. Now it took a lot of use to come to this conclusion as I really liked my 5030 and was initially significantly underwhelmed with the HST+. I have now have LL, LH, LM, HM, LH and HH, I can switch from either of the two options by flicking a switch or set it to do so as needed, I can use auto throttle to vary engine speed as needed etc.

I wonder ho many people really believe fewer ranges, speeds are better than more. Look at the evolution in geared tractors, what direction was considered progress; don't see people clamoring for few gears or options.

No, an HSTC+ is not the end all, be all, certainly not essential, but look at the manufacturers that are adding similar features to their HST machines.

Now "is it worth the added cost complexity" is a very legitimate question and will vary from one to the next. There will always be a demand for a basic machine even as the definition of "basic" changes. Look at your last basic truck or car and in all likelihood many "basics" were once thought of as deluxe unneeded items.

 

[k0ua]

Well, there is opinion then there is fact, some have trouble distinguishing between the two. I owned an L5030HSTC pre HST+ for several years then bought an L5740HSTC. I can say unequivocally, for me the HST+ is more productive. Now it took a lot of use to come to this conclusion as I really liked my 5030 and was initially significantly underwhelmed with the HST+. I have now have LL, LH, LM, HM, LH and HH, I can switch from either of the two options by flicking a switch or set it to do so as needed, I can use auto throttle to vary engine speed as needed etc.

I wonder ho many people really believe fewer ranges, speeds are better than more. Look at the evolution in geared tractors, what direction was considered progress; don't see people clamoring for few gears or options.

No, an HSTC+ is not the end all, be all, certainly not essential, but look at the manufacturers that are adding similar features to their HST machines.

Now "is it worth the added cost complexity" is a very legitimate question and will vary from one to the next. There will always be a demand for a basic machine even as the definition of "basic" changes. Look at your last basic truck or car and in all likelihood many "basics" were once thought of as deluxe unneeded items.

One of the other features I wish my machine had besides the auto throttle is the ability to fine tune the hydrostats response from the dash. You can do this with the HST+ tranny. But I have to live with the "medium" response that my machine has. Sometimes you want the peddle to movement response to be rapid and "crisp" like you get with a direct pedal to swash plate and sometimes you want it to be more "slushy". It depends on the job you are doing.

All of these things that HST+ offers may be considered "minor" and maybe they are. I sure get a lot of work done with my HST machine but anything that adds value, convenience and productivity/less time, is worth considering.

 

[TripleR]

One of the other features I wish my machine had besides the auto throttle is the ability to fine tune the hydrostats response from the dash. You can do this with the HST+ tranny. But I have to live with the "medium" response that my machine has. Sometimes you want the peddle to movement response to be rapid and "crisp" like you get with a direct pedal to swash plate and sometimes you want it to be more "slushy". It depends on the job you are doing.

All of these things that HST+ offers may be considered "minor" and maybe they are. I sure get a lot of work done with my HST machine but anything that adds value, convenience and productivity/less time, is worth considering.

James a lot, in my opinion, depends on how often and how long you spend in the seat on any given tractor and of course how you view your tractor. I have plenty of tractors and age is kicking my behind, so my L5740 was my retirement present, so I don't have to run our M8540 between farms. It is in no was essential and makes no money. I no longer smoke drink or dance the hootchie-koo, so gotta do something for fun.

 

[TSO]

Well, there is opinion then there is fact, some have trouble distinguishing between the two. I owned an L5030HSTC pre HST+ for several years then bought an L5740HSTC. I can say unequivocally, for me the HST+ is more productive. Now it took a lot of use to come to this conclusion as I really liked my 5030 and was initially significantly underwhelmed with the HST+. I have now have LL, LH, LM, HM, LH and HH, I can switch from either of the two options by flicking a switch or set it to do so as needed, I can use auto throttle to vary engine speed as needed etc.

I wonder ho many people really believe fewer ranges, speeds are better than more. Look at the evolution in geared tractors, what direction was considered progress; don't see people clamoring for few gears or options.

No, an HSTC+ is not the end all, be all, certainly not essential, but look at the manufacturers that are adding similar features to their HST machines.

Now "is it worth the added cost complexity" is a very legitimate question and will vary from one to the next. There will always be a demand for a basic machine even as the definition of "basic" changes. Look at your last basic truck or car and in all likelihood many "basics" were once thought of as deluxe unneeded items.

Yes of course more gears are better than less.... My point is that HST+ isn't "reinventing the wheel" ... And I find it silly to think that someone would only look at Kubota because of HST+.

 

[drab m]

This is not a comment about the Kubota HST+ (about which I know nothing) - But More gears are better in a geared tractor because PTO speed is tied to engine rpm. - so if the engine RPM remains relatively fixed, the only way to gain more control over ground speed is to have more gear options. This isn't the case for hydrostatic.

It has been a long time since I worked full time on a farm, but right out of college in the 1990's the farm I worked for had Freightliner and Mack trucks to haul grain. The Mack's were always my preference because their engines had such a large torque band that they only needed a straight 5 speed. No 2 or 3 speed transaxles. I thought fewer gears was an advantage. I would have thought a tractor that could do the same stuff with fewer gears would be preferable to one that needed more to compensate for a narrow power band.

 

[k0ua]

This is not a comment about the Kubota HST+ (about which I know nothing) - But More gears are better in a geared tractor because PTO speed is tied to engine rpm. - so if the engine RPM remains relatively fixed, the only way to gain more control over ground speed is to have more gear options. This isn't the case for hydrostatic.

It has been a long time since I worked full time on a farm, but right out of college in the 1990's the farm I worked for had Freightliner and Mack trucks to haul grain. The Mack's were always my preference because their engines had such a large torque band that they only needed a straight 5 speed. No 2 or 3 speed transaxles. I thought fewer gears was an advantage. I would have thought a tractor that could do the same stuff with fewer gears would be preferable to one that needed more to compensate for a narrow power band.

BUT, what you are not taking into account is that the HST+ transmission has the ability to shift on the fly between the HI and LO of any of its 3 ranges. With a simple flick of a finger while moving. Not something you can do with an actual gear shift on the range selector lever. So you achieve greater productivity. Here is one example, Approach the "pile" in the lower range of MED range, push into the pile with good torque, then when starting to transport the now loaded bucket, you need less torque and more speed, you flick it into HI range of the MED range, and now you have your speed. All without stopping to actually swapping gear ranges.