Lubricity of diesel

[cp1969]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Not that it adds anything to the conversation.. but.. I'm pretty sure there -ARE- tests that could be done to see the origin of a fuel.. )</font>

And I'm about equally sure there are not, since in most cities, every refiner's diesel product gets mixed with every other refiner's diesel product in one, big tank at the distribution terminal. Only a few people, through chance of their geographical location, could have any hope of ever maintaining brand identity of the diesel fuel they buy.

As far as the "right" fuel being in the tank, yeah it better be #1 or #2 or a mix but that's as far as they can take it. They might try to bluff you into believing otherwise, but there is virtually no chance it would be enforcible in court, since as I mentioned above, it is essentially impossible for the consumer to do.

 

[Charolais]

" There is no way they could enforce that unless you signed something"

If they tell you to use certified farm fuel they can. That's what they do. Then when you ask where it can be found they tell you the only source they know of is Southern States.

Some areas have very few fuel problems. Some areas the fuel supplier will sell farmers anything they think will burn in those tractors. Got one local supplier that will mix in separated fuel to get rid of it. This happened a lot when underground tanks had to be replaced or dug up and removed. Some of those tanks were not used for 10 or more years. The supplier would pump those tanks off and then mix it with new fuel and to the farms it went. So lack of lube can happen without sulfer removal too.

The only supplier I trust in my area is Southern States. And I add the Lucas then because I know mistakes could be made even with them.

I wish for no one to have fuel problems but if you do ,you'll find few to none that will stand with you on the repair or replacement of parts. You're on your own.

Yes you can take a supplier to court. You can also spend many times more in court and still have to foot the tractor repair bill too.

When the newest low/no sulfer fuel comes to my farm I'll add even more lube to my fuel for some time. I'll watch and listen for fuel problems in the area. After 12 months and see no problems I'll add the normal ammount because I know if it screws up my tractor I'll be paying the bill.

 

[cp1969]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If they tell you to use certified farm fuel they can. )</font>

What is 'certified farm fuel'?

 

[HGM]

There should be no doubt that you can tell the supplier of fuel if you wanted to. Each MFG adds their own "signature" ingredient. This make them "superior" to the other brands. With time and money to do the research, you most certainly CAN find out who the fuel was purchased through. Can we find out as the average Joe Blow, dont think so. Just as I dont believe the engine MFG would do the test to that degree. The will likely do a simple test to prove you are using the correct grade of fuel though.

They will naturally recomend that you use a particular type of fuel, oil, etc, because it has been tested and proven on their product. Surely others will work, maybe to a different degree though. What I dont understand is why as consumers, we find it necessary to prove the engineers wrong by telling them something else will work and their demands are rediculous. Who cares, they recomend the cheapest viable option for long life, why not use it. If there is a question in your mind, then add a supplement. It surely wont hurt.

I know I strayed off the fuel a bit. However, I recently ran into another example of a "signature" ingredient. Any of you that may use JD fuel treatment additives, try taking a fuel sample in a styrafoam cup. The fuel has a yellow color to it(JD Yellow). When you pour the fuel out of the cup, it leaves the yellow dye behind, you see the blue tint in the fuel while pouring, and the cup remains yellow. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[cp1969]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( There should be no doubt that you can tell the supplier of fuel if you wanted to. Each MFG adds their own "signature" ingredient. This make them "superior" to the other brands. With time and money to do the research, you most certainly CAN find out who the fuel was purchased through. )</font>

There is doubt in my mind.

When Mobil, Phillips, Total, Koch, Texaco and others all send their diesel through the pipeline and it all ends up in a single million gallon plus tank at the distribution terminal, how does it keep from getting mixed?

 

[HGM]

I agree that it all comes out of the same BIG tank. The thing I believe your missing is that when the trucks deliver the fuel it is name branded. The fuel is "modified" with particular additives at this point. This is the way it has been explained to me. I have no reason to doubt it. Chevron w/Techron gassoline comes from the same tanks as Amoco Ultimate. In order for the company to claim that theirs is different and "better" than the others, there must be a difference. I believe this is a legal matter as well /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif. When Off Road fuel is delivered to the tanks, nowadays, the dye is added in at the truck. The fuel is the same. Some of the truckers and oil guys on TBN may be able to chime in on this one. I could surely be wrong, but I seriously doubt it on this one.

 

[thatguy]

Gasoline (not diesel to my knowledge and first hand experience) is a fungible product and is all the same until it gets to the terminal and ready to be loaded into tractor trailers for delivery. At the 'rack' the additives that make each brand unique is then added when it is loaded into the trucks.. You are not talking a lot of additive either, its more like a tea spoon per hundred, if not thousand, gallons of fuel.

With my visits to different terminals and doing audits of fuel oil companies I have never had anyone mention that there are different 'brands' of diesel fuel.. But I have never asked anyone that question directly either..

Interesting topic here.. I have always heard that the sulphur does not have anything to do with lubricity directly. But it was the process of lowering the sulfur content that hurt lubricity.

 

[HGM]

thatguy,
Thanks, I think you may have confirmed what I have been trying to explain.

As for the diesel, I dont believe there are brands of diesel either. Like you, I've never asked, never been told.

 

[California]

Seems to me if the dealer requires you to use fuel meeting a certain spec then the dealer should sell or provide a test kit so you can tell if a bad batch was delivered to you.

Has anyone seen such a kit available to the consumer or for use by the dealer?

 

[SkyPup]

How much sulfur do you normally add to your diesel fuel to make sure it has enough lubricity?