Neighbor removed my property line pin

[dodge man]

Diggin It, I responded to this several times when it first came out. It’s always hard to tell who is the problem child. There is always two sides to the story. As I recall there was some aerial photos that aren’t visible now. It seems like these bushes were real close to the neighbors house in front. In all fairness they shouldn’t have built the house so close to the line.

 

[defranks]

I lived in an area composed of several 5-acre parcels. Many of my neighbors had sub-divided into acre and a quarter lots (I consolidated two 5-acre parcels into one ten-acre parcel.) Anyway, one of the neighbors was an unqualified jerk. He was one who tore down stop-work notices after the county found him building without a permit, stole a porta-john from some construction site and used that as his sole sewer, etc. His next door neighbor, also on 1 1/4 acres suspected that the jerk had encroached on his property, so he paid a surveyor to verify the property line. As expected, the jerk was well onto the other guy's property. And within days of the survey, jerk had moved the markers to where he wanted them. Jerk was much younger than the other neighbor, physically imposing, and was well-known to the local deputies. The other neighbor was approaching elderly, sort of frail, and not very assertive. So the end result was that the jerk got away with it, since the other neighbor refused to do anything but complain.
The story has a happy ending as the jerk died of an illness. Every neighbor I spoke to afterward was happy to be rid of him. He was several parcels removed from my property, so I rarely had any truck with him, apart from his starving horses coming onto my property looking for fodder. But I didn't miss him a whit when he was gone.

 

[fried1765]

All roads that I know of around here are 4 rod roads, so 33 feet to the center of the road. Center of the road means just what it says, CENTER OF THE ROAD.

All my deeds say the same thing on distances in regards to land..."more or less". That means the pin on the side of the road is about as arbitrary as it can be.

If I am mowing, and I am only out 18 feet from the edge of the road (3 passes with a 6 foot mower), good luck complaining to someone. 18 feet back is not that far, and to NOT mow back causes safety concerns. No Judge in the country is going to side with ONE landowner when mowing is for the good of the community.


I get complaints all the time, get yelled at just as often, get flipped off, get cars parked in front of me, whatever. I get yelled if I mow back too far, and yelled if I do not mow back far enough. A boom mower operator has to have thick skin. People love to complain, and that is fine, bring it up with your town selectmen, I have a job to do, and do not have time to listen to you run your mouth. If I listened to everyone whine, I would never get my job done.

The key statement is: "All roads that I know of around here are 4 rod roads"
I am sure that is true for the very rural areas around Belfast, Me., and perhaps for much of Me. in general.
NOT TRUE for MANY other areas in New England, or even in the USA.

Old Kings grant deeds, and other early deeds, used the term: "more or less"
If by definition: "more or less" was actually followed today, survey markers of any type would be rendered meaningless.
How much MORE is acceptable?
How much LESS is acceptable?

A pin/bound set at roadside is NOT arbitrary, it is the officially recorded location of the edge of the right of way (layout).
As before: The physical road surface (and it's centerline) within the R/W, often wanders within the layout.

 

[fried1765]

5 years ago I paid for a property line survey so I could continue a privacy screen(200 arborvitaes added to the existing 100 already in place) to completely block a problem neighbor. As a result of this survey I gained a several feet of property about 250' in length. Actually the length is greater but it's woodlands and no need for plantings there. Neighbor didn't dispute any of it(for the most part) even when I pointed out that his underground service for his phone was on my property. Specifically: the riser for this phone service was clearly on my property and I informed him it was fine to leave it...it was located outside the arborvitaes at the corner point, so what did I care.

This past spring I noticed the riser for the phone service was gone as well as the corner pin that my surveyor installed. When the survey was done I took pics of all the pins and documented the distance from the arborvitaes. Just to be certain, I went searching/digging for the corner pin and it's history.

I'm tempted to confront him about it, but then part of me says just leave well enough alone. It bugs me on principle that the pins gone, but since the arborvitaes are permanent and growing fast, why should I care...I know where the corner is and so does he and I have digital pics. There is peace between us now, but only because I took the initiative to bury the hatchet between us. We've both been here 20+years.

There's more to the story, but I'll leave be for now...

Should I be concerned that the pin is gone?
Was this legal for him or whoever moved the phone service riser to do this? I'm 99% certain he was the one who removed it

I had a very similar situation.
My electric company replaced a pole that had originally been placed nearly 50 years earlier.
A survey was done sometime after the original pole was placed, and a concrete bound was set very close to the pole (concrete bounds are common in my sandy soil area, as pins would be readily knocked out of place).
50 years later when replacing the pole the electric company moved, and replanted, the concrete bound.

I did not discover the issue until several weeks later.
The bound had been dug up and obviously replanted, as it was upside down.
These concrete bounds have a small center point marked in them.
When incorrectly trying to reset the bound, the electric company put the center point end down, so I knew it had been moved..

I called the town offices, and they had the electric company hire a survey crew to properly reset the bound.
In my area, survey measurements are calculated to .01 foot, and (non waterfront) land can sell for well over $300,000 per acre.

 

[Molalla1]

I lived in an area composed of several 5-acre parcels. Many of my neighbors had sub-divided into acre and a quarter lots (I consolidated two 5-acre parcels into one ten-acre parcel.) Anyway, one of the neighbors was an unqualified jerk. He was one who tore down stop-work notices after the county found him building without a permit, stole a porta-john from some construction site and used that as his sole sewer, etc. His next door neighbor, also on 1 1/4 acres suspected that the jerk had encroached on his property, so he paid a surveyor to verify the property line. As expected, the jerk was well onto the other guy's property. And within days of the survey, jerk had moved the markers to where he wanted them. Jerk was much younger than the other neighbor, physically imposing, and was well-known to the local deputies. The other neighbor was approaching elderly, sort of frail, and not very assertive. So the end result was that the jerk got away with it, since the other neighbor refused to do anything but complain.
The story has a happy ending as the jerk died of an illness. Every neighbor I spoke to afterward was happy to be rid of him. He was several parcels removed from my property, so I rarely had any truck with him, apart from his starving horses coming onto my property looking for fodder. But I didn't miss him a whit when he was gone.

Wow defranks . . . such neighbors.

 

[defranks]

"Wow defranks . . . such neighbors."

You should hear my stories about "Naked Neighbor", the 70-something retired Navy Captain who bought the property next to me and had thing about running around in a loin cloth!

 

[BrokenTrack]

The key statement is: "All roads that I know of around here are 4 rod roads"
I am sure that is true for the very rural areas around Belfast, Me., and perhaps for much of Me. in general.
NOT TRUE for MANY other areas in New England, or even in the USA.

Old Kings grant deeds, and other early deeds, used the term: "more or less"
If by definition: "more or less" was actually followed today, survey markers of any type would be rendered meaningless.
How much MORE is acceptable?
How much LESS is acceptable?

A pin/bound set at roadside is NOT arbitrary, it is the officially recorded location of the edge of the right of way (layout).
As before: The physical road surface (and it's centerline) within the R/W, often wanders within the layout.

Yes, we run into that a lot here. It is a long story, but my Great Grandfather several times removed, was killed in the Louisburg Siege, fighting for the King. For his heroics, the King of England granted us this land. But we were not very loyal, so when the revolutionary war broke out, we switched sides and fought with Henry Knox. So at the completion of the war, we were allowed to keep our land. That was why so many boundaries here a screwed up! I go to the deed office a lot, and the woman there are constantly saying, "well we have never run into that before."

I got one piece of property that would be impossible to find the edges of. It is laid out by rock walls, and the rock walls have been dug up and moved to make for bigger fields, for bigger tractors. One boundary is set by "being parallel" with another boundary. Well that is pretty hard to establish when every dimension is stated, "more or less" with compass setting stated "more or less", with the orginal surveyor assuming the rock wall would be left forever, which is no longer there.

 

[square1]

My neighbor was just arrested for growing marijuana. Guess I don't know where my property line is afterall

 

[fried1765]

Yes, we run into that a lot here. It is a long story, but my Great Grandfather several times removed, was killed in the Louisburg Siege, fighting for the King. For his heroics, the King of England granted us this land. But we were not very loyal, so when the revolutionary war broke out, we switched sides and fought with Henry Knox. So at the completion of the war, we were allowed to keep our land. That was why so many boundaries here a screwed up! I go to the deed office a lot, and the woman there are constantly saying, "well we have never run into that before."

I got one piece of property that would be impossible to find the edges of. It is laid out by rock walls, and the rock walls have been dug up and moved to make for bigger fields, for bigger tractors. One boundary is set by "being parallel" with another boundary. Well that is pretty hard to establish when every dimension is stated, "more or less" with compass setting stated "more or less", with the orginal surveyor assuming the rock wall would be left forever, which is no longer there.

Have you ever visited the Fort at Louisburg?
It is a fascinating place!
If you have not been there, it would be a great experience for your girls. You should allow for at least one full day at the fort itself.
The fort is a massive facility, though only 20% has been reconstructed.
We had a Summer home in Nova Scotia until 2018, so have been to Cape Breton several times.

With records research by a surveyor, and in the field survey location work, (read....expensive) it is possible to very closely replicate those ancient Maine property boundaries.

 

[Alan W.]

I have found that on older secondary state and county roads right of way size is an assumption.

First case, my own property cornered in the ditch across the road. Found out that the property had never been acquired by the state. Had the surveyor fix my deed to come to the assumed right of way at the road. Not worth it for 200 square feet.

Second case, built a fellowship hall for our church where the old parsonage had been. Due to the tight quarters I had to get a variance from the zoning board. Set back from the right of way was one of the issues. Because of this I had to get the state involved. The church deed went to the edge of the road. State told us that right of way acquisition had been iffy in the past and that on a lot of roads they had none.