New clutch installed and wont dis-engage the engine

[mpilihp]

Ok the long story is under a different thread but under the "All Other Brands" forum but looking for a broader audience to help with this. So the full story is here:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/all-other-brands/209541-pasquali-988-clutch-issue-4.html

But the short of it is, the clutch stopped working, I over adjusted the clutch cable in an effort to get it to dis-engage the engine and it ended up bending the fingers on the pressure plate.

So now, I have a new clutch, pressure plate and throw out bearing installed. I adjusted the fingers on the pressure plate as the manual said (20mm) off of the plate surface and clutch pedal adjusted so the throw out bearing is 3mm off of the fingers. So put all together and it will not dis-engage the engine. (Hmm same as before)

My though was there is not enough movement from the pedal to move the throw out bearing into the fingers far enough. Ive made a few modifications to extend the travel and now the throw out bearing moves 9/16" an inch but still the clutch does not dis-engage the engine.

The pressure plate is the 3 finger design. My question is "typically how much movement of the fingers is required to release the clutch?"

Second, to save a lot of work to test this I am only bolting the motor up to the bell housing and connecting /adjusting the clutch up. Then I have someone hold the clutch down with the tranny in gear and I turn the crankshaft nut on the front of the engine to see if it moves the tractor, which it does. My expectation is it would not move with the clutch pedal pushed in.

If you look at one of the last posts I made in the thread above you will see some pictures. One item that concerns me is the distance the throw out bearing has to be just to begin to touch the fingers is quite a ways, and then when the pedal is fully depressed it looks like the throw out bearing is going to come right off of the guide pins that hold it in place.

I am considering doing what someone else suggested and adjust the fingers on the pressure plate to stand up more and be closer to the throw out bearing so it starts its contact earlier in the movement of the forks that push it. I would of course have to re-adjust the clutch pedal cable so the throw out bearing would be back further to start.

Any suggestions? winter is coming and I really need the tractor to move snow around!

Thanks

~ Phil

 

[oldmech]

Hi! I think your problem is the pressure plate. (defective). The bearing and the pedal travel are correct for me. If only one arm or finger is too used bend or defective (can be too loose on pivot) You have inoperative clutch. Good luck! Oldmech

 

[mpilihp]

Hi OldMech thanks for the response. THe parts are all new and the fingers are tight on the pivot points so that specifically isnt the issue but how can I test/verify the pressure plate is not defective and working?

I was thinking of welding up a bracket of some sort to bolt to the motor flange and allow using a bolt with a plate on it to allow turning the bolt and moving the plate against the fingers until it releases the clutch. I havent done it yet cause it would be alot of effort, hoping for a better solution to verify the pressure plate is working.

~ Phil

 

[oldmech]

Hi! I just want help you. I read your other tread. I Think may be Your clutch disk is too thick or the pressure plate is too tight or too thick and do not release the pressure on the disk clutch.(defective pressure plate) You must separate engine for check clearance with disk clutch. May be you can add some shims between the pressure plate and the flywheel for free the disk. Disk clutch must be come free when forks are depressed. Good luck ! Oldmech

 

[mpilihp]

Hi Oldmech thanks, I suspect there is an issue with the pressure plate but Ive been dreading taking it off as it took forever for me to get the clutch lined up so I could put the engine on. The clutch kit did not come with a centering tool, I just bought a universal one hopefully it works.

I am thinking of welding something up so I can push in on the fingers and see how much movement of the fingers it takes to release the clutch plate. I also am now suspecting I have the wrong pressure plate because of the distance the throw out bearing has to move before it even touches the fingers. IE if I undo the clutch cable the throw out bearing can move back about an inch (Will measure tonight) And when the throw out bearing is at its full extention it almost comes off of the guide pins.

If my test goes well adn the plate is OK then the issue is its too far away from the throw out bearing. Im thinking if thats the case maybe Ill see if a machine shop can well on additional surface onto the throw out bearing's center that the fingers get pressed on so the contact happens earlier what do you think?

~ Phil

 

[jones6780]

Try this link, he had problems with new clutch.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/.../184375-clutch-failure-again-ford-1100-a.html

Russell

 

[mpilihp]

Hi Jones interesting read, seams like he had a similiar mystery issue. I have a question into where I got my parts if mine was new or reconditioned and also if its possible I got the wrong pressure plate, only reason I suspect this is the first throw out bearing I was sent was wrong and the distance the TO bearing has to be set to just start to touch the fingers it has used alot of the throw of the forks already.

Thanks for the thread.

~ Phi

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

Do you have the clutch disc facing the right way. Most are marked for flywheel side or pressure plate side.
Bill

 

[mpilihp]

Hi I literally removed the old one and placed the new one right in its place the same way. THe center piece is flush on one side and bludges on the other, granted maybe the original was on the wrong way as well. I have the motor off again so Ill re-check that. I thought when I first put it in there was no way it could fit the other way as the center piece that buldges out if facing toward the fly wheel would hit it.

~ Phil

 

[mpilihp]

Hi all OK I made some discoveries. I took the pressure plate off and did some checking and measuring.

First the clutch disk can only go in one way, wont fit flipped around.

Second, from the other thread Jones suggested, it looks like my new clutch disk is springy and compresses some, IE I can squeeze it in a vise whereas the old one will not compress.

Lastly I did some measuring for clearances, please remember this is my first time replacing a clutch so I may not use terms that are meaningful to you, if so ask to rediscribe it.

The well in the flywheel that the clutch disk goes in and the pressure plate is bolted to is 24.18mm deep.

The plate that moves on the pressure plate can be collapsed by the fingers 6.5mm.

The thickness of the pressure plate and the clutch disk that goes in the well is 28.85mm. Now subtracting the area that can all be squished into is 28.85 - 24.18 = 4.67mm Now the amount the PP can be compressed is 6.5mm - the 4.67mm = a 1.83mm of freeboard. Not a lot of room to me.

Now someone in the other thread I read suggested putting washers behind the pressure plate to give a bit more room to move. I did it just to see what it does and it makes the fingers stick out A LOT more. Even adjusting the fingers down till there is no more adjustment they would be hitting the throw out bearing. It would be pressing into the throw out (TO) bearing by default. Looking at the TO bearing there are two rings around the guide pins that prevents the TO bearing from going back further into the bell housing. I took that out and it would then work with the washers behind the pressure plate.

So another solution I think would be to use the old clutch disk, it is thinner and does not compress any. Right now I see these as my two options to pursue, any thoughts on what to do?

Thanks

~ Phil