New environmental requirements for Diesel Engines

[LA Confederate]

DEF is 32% urea and 68% water. The urea (CH4N2O) is what treats the NOx. Here's a Wiki article on urea with a blurb on automotive uses: Urea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[djp1218]

I wonder if the government will take all there planes and tanks and trucks ect. off the road because they don't meet the new standards. And instead of just picking on trucks that are needed to supply us with the everyday things that we need and to try to make a living how about taking a look at the smoke coming out of almost every chimney in this country. Im no expert but it seems to me that our older trucks that are left in service(fewer and fewer every yr)are nothing compared to that. I know I sound like a broken record but it seems that the rich and powerful are making rules that only they will be able to live by

 

[joshuabardwell]

And instead of just picking on trucks that are needed to supply us with the everyday things that we need and to try to make a living how about taking a look at the smoke coming out of almost every chimney in this country.

If you think the EPA isn't all up in the butt of wood-stove manufacturers, think again. You can't sell a stove with greater than a certain maximum ppm particulate emission any more.

 

[ajd187]

I'll have to disagree. Dad's '02 Jetta TDI got 45-55MPG in mixed rural and highway driving (depending on how fast you wanted to go and the terrain).

Aaron Z

No you are right, that generation did get better mileage. Emissions and heavier weight (that's an 11 year old car at this point with less safety features and electronics than now) have dropped the MPG. They still get close to 45 hwy which is impresisve though!

 

[djp1218]

I didn't know they are picking on wood stoves things are just out of control I do realize that we need to clean up our act when it comes to clean air but the usa is just a dot on this earth and the new standards shouldn't be forced down our throats until technology has a chance to catch up we are paying more money for crap products. In time we wont know any other way and these things will work but SLOW DOWN

 

[joshuabardwell]

A lot of people complain about the EPA-approved wood stoves, but one effect of their lower particulate emission is that they are much more efficient than pre-EPA stoves. All the particles get burned instead of going up the flue, which translates into more heat in the house per pound of wood. They're a little more finicky to run, and more expensive to buy and maintain, but at least you get increased efficiency as a result.

I don't know about "technology catching up". My impression is that when it comes to the environment, it is almost always regulation that drives technology, not the other way around. If you wait for the technology to catch up, it never will.

 

[djp1218]

I agree but when it comes to these trucks they are still trying to figuring out the standards set in 2008 these trucks are having major injector problems which is causing other problems (expensive ones) and before these problems can be figured out they increased the standards for 2011 and its getting harder again soon. so what I am saying is give it time to catch up

 

[JasG]

A lot of people complain about the EPA-approved wood stoves, but one effect of their lower particulate emission is that they are much more efficient than pre-EPA stoves. All the particles get burned instead of going up the flue, which translates into more heat in the house per pound of wood. They're a little more finicky to run, and more expensive to buy and maintain, but at least you get increased efficiency as a result.

I don't know about "technology catching up". My impression is that when it comes to the environment, it is almost always regulation that drives technology, not the other way around. If you wait for the technology to catch up, it never will.

Yet at what point have we gone too far? Or where is the cost benefit looked at? When these idiots brag that the air coming out is cleaner than the air going in, and it costs 6-10K per engine and we have to scrap all of the older stuff. By older stuff I mean engine 2-3 maybe 5 years old. That's what has happened with trucking and construction in NY and CA. Or when they set these standards in the late 1990's. They also dictated that EGR had to be used. Several engine builders sued the EPA in the late 1990's and wanted to use SCR and other tech. SCR was just starting to be used in Europe and was proven, the engine builders said they couldn't do it with EGR. They lost and the EPA did a made up study that showed EGR could work. Navistar, actually bought the rights to the tech that the EPA said would work. Then in 2009 it was proven that their tech couldn't work. So the EPA all of the sudden said SCR can be used. This put American companies mainly Navistar, Deere, and Caterpillar way behind because they focused on the tech that the EPA said would work. Now Navistar is being fined by the EPA for engines that don't meet the standard, using the tech they bought from the EPA. The pushed CAT, the #1 maker of highway engines out of the market in 2009 because they felt they could not compete and it would take years to develop a SCR engine.

Yet aircraft and container ship emissions were not looked at. The container ships put out the vast majority of the very emissions they are trying to curb.


Big polluters: one massive container ship equals 50 million cars
How 16 ships create as much pollution as all the cars in the world | Mail Online

I'm not saying diesel should have been regulated, but this was done in way that has cost thousands of jobs. Hurt our economy and in the end these last couple of rounds of emission haven't been shown to show any benefit.

 

[JasG]

UCLA fired the professor who blew the whistle on the fraud and that there was no benefit to the last couple rounds of emissions.

ACLJ Files Suit Against UCLA After Professor is Fired for Blowing Whistle on Junk Science | Free Speech, American Center for Law and Justice ACLJ

(Washington, DC) - The American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ) has filed suit on behalf of Dr. James E. Enstrom, a UCLA research professor who was terminated after he blew the whistle on junk environmental science and scientific misconduct at the University of California (UC).

"The facts of this case are astounding," said David French, Senior Counsel of the ACLJ. "UCLA terminated a professor after 35 years of service simply because he exposed the truth about an activist scientific agenda that was not only based in fraud but violated California law for the sake of imposing expensive new environmental regulations on California businesses. UCLA's actions were so extreme that its own Academic Freedom Committee unanimously expressed its concern about the case."

Again I don't have a problem with regulation if there is a reason and science behind it. I am not for regulations just for the sake of regulations. These very regulation put a family member of mine out of business. He could not afford to buy all new machinery or to retro fit his machinery. All of it was well kept and in very good shape. Once the no grandfather clause went into effect it made his machinery, some of it just a couple years old, worth just about scrape price. I had read this put about 1/2 the independent truckers and small contractors out of business in CA.

 

[JasG]

Navistar Fined by EPA Over Technology Built With Agency - Bloomberg

Navistar, the third-biggest U.S. and Canadian maker of truck engines, signed a deal in 2004 to take technology EPA scientists invented and incorporate it into its engines to meet future pollution rules, according to documents published on the agency’s website. The EPA’s technologies, for which the company paid royalties, remain a part of the company’s engine designs, said Patrick Charbonneau, Navistar’s vice president for government relations.