New Kioti TL-750 Track Loader AND CK4020 Tractor

[Coyote machine]

Just traded my 2010 DK-40SE/HST and KB-2485 for a brand new TL-750 Kioti Track Loader AND CK4020 SE/HST cabbed tractor. 1530+ hours on the DK-40 tractor; backhoe was bought in 2009 with my DK-35SE/HST, first Kioti tractor.

So the deal of the century on my trade to my dealer. I almost forgot to include that I also traded in my Sany SY-50U excavator- with only 115 hours! It was a great machine - and I had a blast using it- but alas I needed a cabbed track loader and cabbed tractor more, as I am aging, and want a higher level of comfort as the process of too hot and too cold is wearing me down...
Anyway my selling dealer here in VT: CCR in St. Albans, and my excellent salesman, Jake, have done right by me yet again.
They're about 2.5 hours North of me, yet they have always come through with timely on-site service on the Sany excavator, and will continue to do so on the track loader. The tractor does not rate on site service due to distance and not being 'construction' equipment category.

LIKES: Things I like about the CK40/20: I like the cab, heat, (can't speak to the AC in February); like the linked pedal, suspension seat, wide doors and handles on same. Like the LED lights and better hood mounted lights too. Liking the R-14 tires; had R-4's on both prior DK's.


DISLIKES: Can't open the hood without unpinning and lowering the top section of the brush gard! That's B team engineering on Kioti's part. Quality control; it's still a thing - come on Kioti - you've got to be kidding me on this issue - NOT impressed...

Can't see ANYTHING seated in the cab looking toward QA to connect to implements- Where are the cameras?! Really in 2023 model year NO front OR rear facing camera's so an operator can see what they're trying to connect to with the QAs, or 3PH?! Come on Kioti - this is just plain stupid - not to mention unsafe! The tractor can't be started without parking brake engaged, or locked and the op's butt planted in the seat, so being able to see what's in front of one, without dismounting the cab/tractor is too much to ask?! And with the ignition/seat/parking brake interlock, one can't incrementally move the tractor to align the QA with any attachment. Don't get me started - I get the safety police standard of seat interlock, parking brake, etc., but without cameras to assist the operator - their and other bystander's safety is clearly compromised.
Come on Kioti, if you're the first out of the gate with a front mounted camera; for instance embed a fish eye camera lens into the torsion bar shield between the loader arms, that can allow for some fine tuning adjustment for adequate distance focusing, ALL other manufacturers will follow suit! So I challenge you to do what ALL, or at a minimum of most all tractor buyers would gladly pay extra for - or at least consider as a reasonably priced option to add onto their cab or open station tractor.
Next - QA lock/release arms. Two instead of the single center mounted arm on my DK series tractors. No problem going back to two release/lock arms, as I believe were used prior to my 2008-2010 DK series, BUT the tow arms on the CK series do NOT include the handle end black rubber? grip pieces that are on some other models of Kiotis. Why? I'm told by my dealer everything is down to cost cutting measures to be competitive in the marketplace. I say BS and ridiculous! Keep the handle grip pads, install cameras, be better at what matters to customers and you'll have more satisfied customers than you will focused on the pennies saved vs. the 'other guy'. Everyone I talk to agrees that bring options, reasonably priced and buyers will decide what thy want, AND what they're willing to pay for...
My '23 Ford F-150 has more cameras than I can count and in places I can't hardly locate, showing me multiple views of where I'm going, or about to go. Are we supposed to believe most guys, who will likely self- install a rear facing camera on the front or back, or both ends of their tractor, wouldn't select it as an option if offered at time of purchase? I doubt it! JMHO. What say you - Kioti owners/purchasers?
Note - I will do a like/dislike on the track loader separately for brevity of this post.
Stay tuned...

 

[Dave Canfield]

Congratulations on the new equipment! Since you started a rant, I cannot resist adding to it.
I like the idea of embedding cameras. One for the SSQA, one for bucket cutting edge, one for the fork tips, etc. It could be just two well thought out cameras I suppose.
While on the subject of cheap upgrades that would move the tractors up in the luxury/quality class - below are a few more inexpensive ideas (at least for the cab models):
The SSQA handles could stand to have their edges deburred prior to plating unless the handles get a rubber coating.
Another thing while on the Skid Steer Quick Attach - the tubes for the locking pins need to be a bit longer. Takes a bit of fiddling around to get the pins to start sliding inside the tubes because the lever pushes the pins sideways (even with lots of grease).
Moving inside the cab a few half cent bumpers could be added to the stops for the break pedal, the tilt column tilt stops and anything else that clatters and bangs when operated.
Next is the radio. I feel that removing the Aux port and just going with bluetooth would cost less money, and improve sound quality/ reliability. The connections to the relays in the top of the cab and the relays themselves are not reliable. I am currently rewiring my speakers to go directly to a new radio with bluetooth.
Make the radio have power in the acc position on the ignition switch (just like normal vehicles). I like to listen to the radio when the tractor is not running but I am doing stuff just outside. I just open up all the windows.
Put/move the USB power port closer to the dash to allow phone charging and camera charging where the cords don't have to drape across the doorway. I like having my phone on a holder attached to the front window.
Sound absorption insulation - there could be a lot of sound reduction improvement for not much money by spending a few days in the engineering department with some more insulation, a pair of scissors, and a sound level meter. That would be a great help for older ears (probably a large segment of the compact tractor market demographics).
Make side lights a part of the lighting package and improve the light fixtures. I'm putting in/changing out the current fixtures for LED.
I like the tractor (DK4710SE) I bought well enough that I have recommended it to neighbors who have asked about it.
Anyway I can probably go on for awhile on other items for improvement but lunch is over and I need to pull off the top of the cab one more time and finish the radio rewiring job.

Dave

 

[Coyote machine]

Thanks Dave! I appreciate that.
You reminded, me I didn't address the 3rd function valve issue, but I want to do so now.

I was not planning on having any implements that require hydraulics to attach to the CK. My plan was to use the track loader to do all the heavy lifting and grunt work. But when my salesman inquired about a 3rd function install, I began to think it over as to advantages it might provide.

I decided to have their recommended brand installed: W.R. Long.
Now here's the difference between Kioti's 3rd function and mine, and diverter valves. Kioti's kit consists of a under floor pan mounted valve and metal box housing for the hydraulic lines going to/from the valve and to the loader torsion bar, where implement hoses attach to couplers to complete the hydraulic circuit.

My 3rd function valve resides next to and aft of the factory, dealer installed, coupler block for the loader hoses.
It uses one male and one female coupler to allow easy install/removal of the loader, AND better protects the valve assembly from damage from rocks, stumps, etc. that IMHO the Kioti valve kit is susceptible to due to it's location.

More important is the Kioti kit does NOT allow for multiple functions at one time. My 3rd function DOES allow one to curl and dump simultaneously. This clearly has its advantages over a diverter valve - which, correct me if I'm mistaken, is essentially what the Kioti kit provides.

For me, NOT having the valve mounted where terrain changes/obstacles like stumps, rocks, etc. could do serious damage to the tractor and or valve is a risk I'm not wanting to take. Numerous times on my DK-40 the loader couplers located under the floor pan caught branches and one or more couplers were uncoupled - creating in one situation sudden loss of control of a loader function that nearly caused injury to a clueless bystander who had turned his back and was walking away when the incident happened. When I went to avoid him the loss of control took some time for me to recognize what was happening. Fortunately, I was able to steer clear of his dumb **s, and disaster was diverted. Get it - diverted.... Ha, Ha!

Anyway, now to address the loader torsion bar coupler bracket. The W. R. Long 3rd function came with a flat metal steel bracket that has 3 holes for the torsion bar cover, on the right, close to the right loader arm. It has two larger holes that the couplers attach to with whatever fittings one is using. Fine. The problem is the flat bracket makes the couplers on the hose ends face the ground. This is counter intuitive, and makes it nearly impossible to connect implement couplers to the 3rd function couplers easily or without making the entire process a huge struggle; not to mention the proximity of the adjacent brushgard, that when opened to allow the tractor hood to open without hitting the brushgard upon opening or closing, the brushgard is able to hit and damage the hydraulic hose protective sheathing. This cluster suc is a B team engineering problem looking for a solution.

I recently saw a DK4710 that a new friend has, and it allows the hood to open withOUT hitting the brushgard?!
Why not the CK series? Did someone on the B team go to lunch on this issue?
And when the fold down portion of my brushgard is opened the loader's torsion bar can hit the brushgard if/when lowered enough to make contact. Brilliant - NOT.
So my solution/workaround is to have a 1/2" steel plate cut with 6 bolt holes drilled to fit 1/2" longer bolts to hold the plate between the tractor frame and the brushgard- allowing the hood to open without having to unlock the pins and fold down the brushgard each time I want to check the oil level or whatever under the hood.

This is NOT a rant so much as a buyer beware expose on some stupid overlooks on the part of Kioti and or the selling dealers and vendors supplying them parts, etc.
Quality control and common sense people - is it completely gone from everything these days?! Sure as he11 seems so IMO!?

So, back to the 3rd function coupler bracket. My Kioti dealer is working with W. R. Long to find/design/make a bracket to fit on the torsion bar of the loader that will keep the brushgard from hitting and damaging the hoses, while making the couplers face straight out toward the implement being attached. This will solve the issues, once and for all, hopefully. I say hopefully because I'm going to be using flat faced couplers to make my implements, snowplow, log grapple and treeshear fit both my tractor and track loader.

Wish me luck - I may well need it still...
Hope this helps someone on TBN to 'fix' similar issues with their otherwise excellent Kioti tractor.

Cheers all,
CM out

 

[Dave Canfield]

Thanks for the information on the 3rd function kit. It sounds like a better design.
I really like the idea of a heavy plate for a spacer! My hood hits the guard just ever so slightly. A little more weight up there can only help also.

 

[Kioti Sal]

Congrats on the new units!
I've got a CK3510, so I don't have the fancy new LEDs. But one thing I have discovered is that the seat switch needs very little pressure to work. If the parking brake is on and the trans is in neutral: you can lean in, press down on the seat, and start the tractor. Saves you climbing into the cab only to get back out for something.

Also, good thing you don't have a front mounted snow blower, Coyote Machine... you'd blow a gasket! I have to remove my brush guard or my front mounted blower won't raise up more than a few inches.
Thats some real 'B team' stuff.

 

[grsthegreat]

Im surprised theres even a seat switch in a cab machine. My 2010 dk45 doesnt have any seat switch. I would hate not being able to reach thru door while standing on ground to inch machine while hooking up equipment.

 

[D&D]

Im surprised theres even a seat switch in a cab machine. My 2010 dk45 doesnt have any seat switch. I would hate not being able to reach thru door while standing on ground to inch machine while hooking up equipment.

Thats what the extendable lower links and rear 3 pt. control are for

 

[D&D]

Hmmm, I have the Kioti 3rd function and mine does open/close, lift and dump. The q/d's are located on the loader mast near the others.
Hope you enjoy crawling over the attachment more than you disliked your mini

 

[grsthegreat]

Thats what the extendable lower links and rear 3 pt. control are for

Nonesence, they dont reach far enough sometimes

 

[deezler]

Congrats on your new equipment! Thats a big investment.

I want to play devil's advocate just a bit:
- Can you seriously not see the SSQA plate if you just stand up a little? Have not heard this gripe from other Kioti owners, and I don't believe much has changed from the '10s to the '20s. Are you on the shorter side?
- A camera on the front of the tractor simply isn't needed... just stand up if you have to. A camera on the front end would just get quickly damaged when using a grapple to move brush, or hit with dirt/rocks, etc
- I like having the grill guard close to the hood. This means the loader can also be closer to the machine, instead of way out front like all those silly blue Ford/New Holland machines. How often do you need to open the hood anyway? I usually only engage one of the pins on my grill guard, so that it's quicker to unlock and raise the hood. Takes 5 seconds.
- You can easily bypass/disable the operator seat switch. They make this mod easy to do for a reason
- You mention "quality control" as a major issue on the machine but then don't give us a single example. What was not assembled correctly or poorly?

Completely agree on the QA arms not having a plastic or rubber cover, thats super janky. But also super easy to fix yourself.

Not gonna be reassuring to compare your F150 features/build quality to a tractor line that sells a few orders of magnitude less machines annually. Economy of scale is huge. But your truck was also twice the price of your tractor, no?

But also, I hope you are just venting about some sort of minor gripes, and still like the machine overall, yeah? Because these are all things you could have easily observed and verified while on the dealer lot before purchasing.