New Low Sulfer Diesel in 2006 -PROBLEMS?

   / New Low Sulfer Diesel in 2006 -PROBLEMS? #21  
I know that in Europe there are diesels used there that are not allowed here in the US because of emissions being to high. Heck, here in California we did not get many of the vehicles that were allowed in other states. We never were allowed to purchase 1/2 GMC's with diesels (that in retrospect was a blessing). Yep, Richard is right on about the diesels here today. Trucks are burning very clean. It amazes me how in a few short years they went from pretty bad to pretty incredible both in power and emissions
 
   / New Low Sulfer Diesel in 2006 -PROBLEMS? #22  
Hi,

I thought Euro diesel starandards were a high as California?

Like I said earlier, We have had LSD up here for 10 years. It is moreso a mindset adjustment IMO!! Diesel fuel conditioner works great!!

Hey, I know Dodge did not sell the HIGH OUTPUT Cummins 24V in California because of emmisions............Is the NEW 600 available out there??

Thanks

Will
 
   / New Low Sulfer Diesel in 2006 -PROBLEMS? #23  
Euro emissions focus on CO and CO2 emissions while NOx is a bit slacker. Cali is tight on NOx due to their smog problems. NOx is the hardest to reduce on a diesel.

Another difference is I believe at least some euro areas use total emissions per mile or something like that as opposed to the % rules the US uses.
Ken
 
   / New Low Sulfer Diesel in 2006 -PROBLEMS? #24  
Diesel generators, trains, buses (almost all of those are going natural gas), tractors, you name it, they are all being directed in one way or the other to cleaner emissions CO and CO2 included or they are not allowed to be used as is the case with many diesel generators. I don't know if the Dodge HO is available in Cafiornia. In the past years the higher output Cummins was not. I suppose it makes sense in a state this size that has a greater population then the whole of Canada.
 
   / New Low Sulfer Diesel in 2006 -PROBLEMS? #25  
Not meaning to get to far off topic, but I noticed in a Harbor Freight catalog that they had chainsaws for sale EXCEPT in california. Are they considered "assault weapons" there? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Or is it, as it just occured to me, an exhaust emissions issue?
 
   / New Low Sulfer Diesel in 2006 -PROBLEMS? #26  
Hi,

It makes sense. I always chuckle on that one!!! California will fint into Ontario how many times, and Californias population is more than our entire country!!!! LOL

Ok, as for smal engines.............. aren't 2 strokes on the way out due to emissions? What is the present state of 2 strokes in California ? ( Our emmisions system is modelled after California's)

Thanks,

Will
 
   / New Low Sulfer Diesel in 2006 -PROBLEMS? #27  
Sulfur in diesel is NOT a lubricant. Old wives tale.

This low sulfur diesel will be an improvement.

Ralph
 
   / New Low Sulfer Diesel in 2006 -PROBLEMS? #28  
RalphVA: Please be careful when asserting your opinions as if they were fact. You should have qualified your statement with a qualifier such as "in my opinion" before your statement that sulfur does not add to the lubricating factors of diesel fuel. The facts that can be easily researched and proven through current testing show that you are wrong.

According to a little research on the matter to disprove your assertion, I found that in October 1993, EPA limited sulfur in diesel fuel for “on-road” vehicles to a maximum of 0.05% or 500 parts per million (PPM). This created many fuel related problems that resulted from the poor lubricating quality of the low sulfur diesel fuel. Since the maximum limit for sulfur in diesel fuel prior to October 1993 had been 0.50% or 5000 PPM, the refinery processing not only lowered the sulfur content but also removed trace amounts of certain polar impurities. Both organo-sulfur compounds and these polar impurities were the ingredients that gave diesel fuel its needed natural lubricating qualities.

From this new low sulfur limit for all “on-road” vehicles, several laboratory testing procedures were developed in the mid 1990’s that measured the lubricity of diesel fuel. Chevron’s Technical Review of Diesel Fuels publication defines lubricity as “the ability to reduce friction between solid surfaces in relative motion, the lubrication mechanism being a combination of hydrodynamic lubrication and boundary lubrication.” More simply stated, lubricity is that quality that prevents wear when two moving metal parts come in contact with each other. Three methods were developed which are now available for measuring fuel lubricity; namely, the Scuffing Load Ball on Cylinder Lubricity Evaluator (SLBOCLE), the High Frequency Reciprocating Wear Rig (HFRR), and the Ball on Three Seats Method (BOTS).

EPA proposed new regulations in May of 2000 that will further reduce sulfur for “on-road” diesel fuel to a maximum of 0.0015% or 15 PPM. The proposed regulation is to go into effect June 1, 2006. This reduction in sulfur is fully supported by engine manufactures who contend their new exhaust catalyst systems needed to meet the enacted emission standards will not work if sulfur exceed 15 PPM. However, the proposed legislation is not supported by the refining industries and oil companies who are recommending the limit be set at 0.0050% or 50 PPM. They explain that attempting to meet the anticipated demand for diesel fuel having sulfur at 15 PPM or less will be extremely difficult and very costly for consumers.

We first have to understand why lubricity is important for diesel fuel. There are several types of diesel fuel injection systems being used by engine manufactures which depend on fuel lubricity in varying degrees. Of all systems being used, the rotary distributor injection pump is the one most dependent on lubricity because the fuel provides 100% lubrication to the internal parts of the injection pump. As the rotary distributor injection pump is highly susceptible to boundary lubrication wear (i.e., when heavy metal-to-metal contact occurs with the fuel providing little or no lubrication), this potential wear becomes more severe with increasing ambient temperature and increasing loading on the engine. Any significant wear will lead to under run and/or stalling annoyances, and eventually premature pump failure. The remaining other types of fuel injection systems are not as highly dependent on the fuel for lubrication and therefore, are not as sensitive to low lubricity diesel fuel, sometimes referred to as “dry diesel fuel.”

These rotary distributor injection pumps, typically found on small to medium size engines, are widely used, and are manufactured by Stanadyne Automotive Corporation,, DENSO Corporation, Robert Bosch GmbH, and Delphi Diesel Systems. These types of fuel injection pumps are typically found in most US and foreign manufactured light duty vehicles and a wide variety of equipment systems.

Since the introduction of "low sulfur" diesel fuel in 1993, there has been a considerable amount of effort by the automotive industry, users, and the petroleum industry to incorporate a “lubricity requirement” in commercial diesel fuel; namely, ASTM D975. Unfortunately, this has not yet happened due to a combination of politics and other factors. However, there had been in Europe a greater awareness and acceptance for specifying a lubricity requirement. The European Union ‘s Diesel Fuel Standard EN590 now requires all low sulfur diesel fuel sold in Europe to meet a lubricity standard that uses the HFRR procedure.

In the United States, the Engine Manufacturers Association (EMA) published their “Recommended Guideline on Premium Diesel Fuel” in 1997. This document, identified as EMA FQP-1A, did include a lubricity requirement for both grades of low sulfur diesel fuel. Additionally, the World-Wide Fuel Charter published by the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers (AAM) in January 2000 also specified a lubricity requirement for all four of their diesel fuel categories. More recently, the Diesel Fuel Injection Equipment Manufacturers (FIE) issued a “Common Position Statement on Fuel for Diesel Engines.” in June 2000. Contained within this statement was a strong recommendation for including the same lubricity requirement as in the EN590 standard. So there has been some progress.

As low sulfur diesel fuel continues to be sold in the United States without any requirement for lubricity, there continues to exist the potential for wear problems especially in engines with the rotary distributor fuel injection pumps. The consumer is led to believe that all is well as fuel producers would not market a “low lubricity or lubricity deficient” fuel that could promote wear. That however may or may not be the case since there is “no measuring stick” presently being used. Without the enforcement of a lubricity standard, neither consumers nor fuel distributors can be certain as to whether the fuel has adequate lubricity.

As soon as the industry standard for diesel fuel D975 incorporates a lubricity standard, the potential for wear problems will become a distant memory. This standard will most certainly be needed prior to the next planned reduction of sulfur in 2006. Time will tell. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / New Low Sulfer Diesel in 2006 -PROBLEMS? #29  
My two Bosch VE37 rotary distributor pumps have over 240,000 miles between them without a single solitary problem using Amoco Premier or BP Supreme #2 exclusively for the last seven years.

The new ULSD limit <15ppm is most welcome and will add to the longetivity of our engines.

Sulfur is not needed for lubricity.

Get rid of sulfur and aromatics now!
 
   / New Low Sulfer Diesel in 2006 -PROBLEMS? #30  
SkyPup, I'm a bit confused by your statement, as it contradicts itself. You state that you have nearly 1/4 million miles on engines running diesel fuel I assume that you purchased in the U.S., and have had no problems. That would be very believable as many have over 1 million miles on them without problems. However, unless you have been buying your diesel from outside the U.S. at refineries who already reduce the sulphur content below the U.S. standards, you have been using diesel which contains enough sulfer, without other added lubricants needed, to lubricate your pumps.

I'm not an advocate for sulphur, I personally don't care for the smell, but the fact that can easily be researched is that it does provide natural lubricating properties to diesel fuel. Please, don't believe me, research it yourself. By reducing the lubrication, how do you figure that your engines "will last longer"? Perhaps by adding a superior alternative lubricant, but not by simply removing sulphur, a natural source of diesel lubricant.
 
 
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