Newbie looking to buy

[rScotty]

Problem is when the materials look the same on casual inspection, but aren't the same. A friend of mine said that the bearings he used to buy for a particular machine were fine when made in the USA, but when they outsourced overseas, the metal isn't the same at all even though they were the same part number and fit the machine. He had done so many repairs over the years that he spotted the difference.

That's right. The high quality parts don't look any different on casual inspection. That's deliberate and costs far less than actually making high quality. In fact, a really good counterfeit looks the same on a more in depth inspection too.
I know....I just replaced some precision tooling in my shop. The knock offs are so good that they even copy the inspectors signature. (Mitutoyo). But they can't copy the accuracy or quality. Not for a lessor price.

But as your friend knows, the good parts are still available...for a price. I'll bet you he finds the right parts the same way we all do - through a more in-depth inspection and more education backed with experience on what to look for. All that knowledge comes with a price, and then buying the higher quality costs more too. It applies to his bearings and to tractors too.

When the guy wrote that BS on quality being imaginary back in message #18, he makes the typical mistake of the mechanically uneducated. He assumes that good quality doesn't cost more because he wishes that were the case. It doesn't appear to be malice on his part, just a lack of understanding. The cure is more education.... & that's usually the case.

rScotty

 

[Torvy]

I doubt that the average buyer is ever going to put in the time to find hard data on quality - not on tractors any more than on any manufactured item. Quality data on manufactured items is available, but is generally ignored. And quality does cost more. A bearing designed to go 100,000 hours between failure costs substantially more than one that goes 20,000 hours.

Re-melting the crucible to adjust the alloy before the pour costs more. Machining to closer tolerances costs more. An O ring compound that is resistant to alcohol costs more. A seal with a smoother surface costs more. And they all contribute to longer life. All of these are available data points. All are critical to manufacturing and pricing. None are of much interest to the opinionated.

Simply dismissing quality because of your bias against the cost is wrong. You are allowing wishful thinking to ignore the obvious.

rScotty

You are living in a fantasy world if you think the component parts in the more expensive brands are higher quality. They let you assume your higher price is buying more than paint color and laugh all the way to the bank.

There are definitely manufacturers who use better quality parts than others, but the correlation with MSRP is mythical. You are simply paying for the added overhead of more dealerships per square mile.

Don't stop believing. Salesmen depend on you to get by.

 

[Randy Gann]

My advice is not on the tractor but on implements. Make a list of ALL possible jobs that you would need to accomplish and use this to put together a list of all the implements needed for the tasks. The main advice here is to get the implements when you get the tractor. This list should even include such things as a tooth bar for the bucket or pallet forks. This is where your neighbor and this forum can be helpful. Also consider some used implements. A non-damaged used box blade will work just as good as new one of similar quality.

 

[rScotty]

You are living in a fantasy world if you think the component parts in the more expensive brands are higher quality. They let you assume your higher price is buying more than paint color and laugh all the way to the bank.

There are definitely manufacturers who use better quality parts than others, but the correlation with MSRP is mythical. You are simply paying for the added overhead of more dealerships per square mile.

Don't stop believing. Salesmen depend on you to get by.

Well, I think it is sad if that is your view of the world.... and doubly sad because I believe it's wrong.

But I do wish you would back off on promoting your views as gospel to the tractor newbies.
Or at least point out that your views aren't gospel, they are just bias compounded with your own wishful thinking as a prospective buyer.

Luckily for the rest of us, the world does not entirely revolve around financial issues, MSRP, low cost bidders and cut rate suppliers. Yes, they exist; but so do the makers who value quality..... and yes they do generally cost more. Learn how to judge value. It's a useful skill.

There is plenty of data on quality. It's all around us rural people. Just take a look at what the experienced old timer farmers & ranchers are buying for their own use. Then ask yourself why.

rScotty

 

[Randy Gann]

Concerning the 20 acres to bush hog. To save yourself the effort, ask around with neighbors to find out if any local farmers would be willing to raise hay on this 20 acres. This also could be a way to make a little income from this acreage. Even if you don’t get any income from the arrangement this would be better than spending your time, fuel and wear and tear on equipment to mow 20 acres.

 

[Torvy]

Well, I think it is sad if that is your view of the world.... and doubly sad because I believe it's wrong.

But I do wish you would back off on promoting your views as gospel to the tractor newbies.
Or at least point out that your views aren't gospel, they are just bias compounded with your own wishful thinking as a prospective buyer.

Luckily for the rest of us, the world does not entirely revolve around financial issues, MSRP, low cost bidders and cut rate suppliers. Yes, they exist; but so do the makers who value quality..... and yes they do generally cost more. Learn how to judge value. It's a useful skill.

There is plenty of data on quality. It's all around us rural people. Just take a look at what the experienced old timer farmers & ranchers are buying for their own use. Then ask yourself why.

rScotty

Sorry man. I grew up in the business. The overhead costs of advertising and salaries for marketing, properties and the like are why the costs are higher for the 'prime' brands. They are not using the higher quality parts, that is just wishful thinking.

I am all about value, not price. I see where companies cut corners and where they spend. All views on the internet are opinions based on experience mine and yours included.

There is a great deal of data out there showing confirmation bias and how the most popular brands (of many different products) are not the best products, they are the better marketed products. Marketing convinces people that higher prices = better quality. While higher costs are often associated with higher quality components, higher prices do not ensure you are getting them.

I'll be happy to stop telling people my truth as soon as people like you stop lying to people about expensive brands being better. Just because you believe, does not make it true. I am truly sorry you have been duped. People get paid millions to keep you believing.

 

[rScotty]

Sorry man. I grew up in the business. The overhead costs of advertising and salaries for marketing, properties and the like are why the costs are higher for the 'prime' brands. They are not using the higher quality parts, that is just wishful thinking.

I am all about value, not price. I see where companies cut corners and where they spend. All views on the internet are opinions based on experience mine and yours included.

There is a great deal of data out there showing confirmation bias and how the most popular brands (of many different products) are not the best products, they are the better marketed products. Marketing convinces people that higher prices = better quality. While higher costs are often associated with higher quality components, higher prices do not ensure you are getting them.

I'll be happy to stop telling people my truth as soon as people like you stop lying to people about expensive brands being better. Just because you believe, does not make it true. I am truly sorry you have been duped. People get paid millions to keep you believing.

So now I am lying to people? You have sure gone some distance tryig to justify a world that works in the way you want it to be. A world that doesn't have any difference in quality, but only in perception. A world in which your desire to find a cheap tractor makes them all equal.
That's ok by me. Your not understanding doesn't make it false.

And your not understanding doesn't make me a liar.

There is so much more to the real world than your tiny financial and advertising part of the pie. Take a look at the world around you and you will see that some seed, lumber, tools, cars, appliances, clothing, houses, medical care, education, and gear of every type comes in a range of quality and prices. Some things are simply made from the start to be better quality than others.

People like to make things. But they do it for different reasons. Corporations have personalities just as people do. Some will manufacture to compete on price while others prefer to complete on quality.
And yes, making something of better quality does make it cost more.
I can't always afford high quality, but that doesn't make me pretend it doesn't exist.
rScotty

 

[DGZRT]

Concerning the 20 acres to bush hog. To save yourself the effort, ask around with neighbors to find out if any local farmers would be willing to raise hay on this 20 acres. This also could be a way to make a little income from this acreage. Even if you don’t get any income from the arrangement this would be better than spending your time, fuel and wear and tear on equipment to mow 20 acres.

This is exactly what we do to our front 25 acres. He pays us enough to cover out taxes and keeps the field looking perfect . If you go this route be careful on picking the farmer ! Make sure you can work with him and ask him how he fertilizers. I say this because we have a very large farm 5 miles away that milks probably a thousand head . I found out part of the reason he offers slightly more money is because he spreads his waste over the fields . Not sure I could stand the stink every weekend. Good luck you will get many pages of advice! Any Tractor you buy will cut your workload in half and you will find it’s great therapy! Have your siblings pitch in for the implements because they will want to use your tractor!

 

[Torvy]

So now I am lying to people? You have sure gone some distance tryig to justify a world that works in the way you want it to be. A world that doesn't have any difference in quality, but only in perception. A world in which your desire to find a cheap tractor makes them all equal.
That's ok by me. Your not understanding doesn't make it false.

And your not understanding doesn't make me a liar.

There is so much more to the real world than your tiny financial and advertising part of the pie. Take a look at the world around you and you will see that some seed, lumber, tools, cars, appliances, clothing, houses, medical care, education, and gear of every type comes in a range of quality and prices. Some things are simply made from the start to be better quality than others.

People like to make things. But they do it for different reasons. Corporations have personalities just as people do. Some will manufacture to compete on price while others prefer to complete on quality.
And yes, making something of better quality does make it cost more.
I can't always afford high quality, but that doesn't make me pretend it doesn't exist.
rScotty

The problem is not high quality, it is the false perception that higher prices entails higher quality.

Price, Quality, and Value

How do shoppers use price to judge quality and value?

www.psychologytoday.com

 

[rScotty]

The problem is not high quality, it is the false perception that higher prices entails higher quality.

Psychology Today: Health, Help, Happiness + Find a Therapist

View the latest from the world of psychology: from behavioral research to practical guidance on relationships, mental health and addiction. Find help from our directory of therapists, psychologists and counselors.

www.psychologytoday.com

You have inverted what I said and now have it backwards.
I never said that higher prices causes higher quality.
What I said is that higher quality costs more.
Unfortunately, higher quality does cause higher prices. Not the reverse.
And the same is true throughout the mechanical manufacturing world.

Your world view seems to be built around perception.
Mine leans more toward the factual & mechanical.

What we are trying to do here is help people who have asked for help choosing which tractor to buy. There are certainly valid reasons for any price range. One of those reasons is that quality costs more to make.
If course everyone would like for the same quality to be available at a lower price, but by restricting yourself to lower prices you are missing something that may be important...or not.
rScotty