* * OFF ROAD SUPPLY PROBLEM * *

[rswyan]

Thanks for your reply/makes sense.

Glad to be of service

 

[crazyal]

I'm lucky. I heat my house with oil (backup to firewood). So when I fill my tank I also get a 55 gal drum filled along with the equipment. It's usually a little over 300 gallons so they give me the off road fuel for the same price as the heating oil. I have pulled oil out of 275 gallon tanks that had been sitting for a year or more and burnt it with no problem.

I would fill two 55 gallon drums and make sure to seal one of them well. I think a full tank that can't breath sits well for several years.

 

[tsteahr]

Provided you (or your supplier) treats the fuel correctly, with a fuel treatment that contains a biocide, then yes.

Imagine the position any large facility - like say, a hospital, as an example - is in, in terms of using diesel powered generators for emergency power: they have to have a significant supply of fuel ready at all times in case they do lose power.

While "exercising" the genset periodically does provide some consumption (and opportunity for replenishment), I'd imagine that in terms of their total fuel supply, such consumption is minimal.

And I would guess that their fuel supplier probably doesn't come and pump out the old fuel periodically and replace it with new .....

It is true large facilities have EDGs (emergency diesel generators) with large fuel storage tanks, but I would also expect the fuel is tested for impurities (particulate, algae, water, etc) and filtered on a regular PM basis. At least that is what is done where I work. If the fuel fails the test requirements and can not be corrected with filtration and/or treatment then it is pumped out. I have seen several thousand gallons discarded at a time.

So the point is that while the fuel for large EGDs is not "new" it is monitored and cared for quite carefully. I suspect this level of care is outside of what is practical for a homeowner to perform.

 

[rswyan]

It is true large facilities have EDGs (emergency diesel generators) with large fuel storage tanks, but I would also expect the fuel is tested for impurities (particulate, algae, water, etc) and filtered on a regular PM basis.

I would assume that it is .... considering the amount of investment large quantities of fuel represent .... to do otherwise would be fiscally irresponsible for one thing ....

At least that is what is done where I work.

Just out of curiosity, where do you work - and what do you do ?

If the fuel fails the test requirements and can not be corrected with filtration and/or treatment then it is pumped out. I have seen several thousand gallons discarded at a time.

So ..... what do they do with it ?

Probably a safe bet that it ain't going down the drain .....

So the point is that while the fuel for large EGDs is not "new" it is monitored and cared for quite carefully. I suspect this level of care is outside of what is practical for a homeowner to perform.

Likely true - but then there is level of care required to prevent any problem to a near absolute 100% certainty (given the consequences that might accrue if that level of care were not exercised: loss of life, etc.)

And then there's the level of care required to be reasonably sure that you aren't allowing a problem to develop .....

The average homeowner isn't generally in the position where his care (or lack thereof) of diesel fuel is a matter of life and death, or a serious disruption to the public at large.

If I can't mow my grass tomorrow morning because I need to go to the dealer and pick up a new fuel filter, it don't have quite the same consequence as the Intensive Care Unit being without backup power and unable to keep someone's ventilator running ..... it just ain't quite the same deal .....

The issues surrounding properly caring for long-term fuel storage aren't terribly complicated, the data is known (or knowable), there are commercial products and solutions available, and it **** sure doesn't require holding an advanced degree or a Chief Engineer's License:

1. Keep a clean tank (uhh .... you might wanna to drain and clean it out occasionally, on a periodic basis, when it gets low) ....

2. Use a biocide .... (to treat your fuel and prevent the plants and bugs from growing .....)

3. Filter your fuel before you put it in your equipment ..... ( ..... could possibly include the use of a water separator on your pump)

If ya feel the need for "periodic filtering on a regular PM basis", next time you are out in the shop working on something, just stick your fuel nozzle into the filler opening on your tank and let 'er run for 10 or 15 minutes ..... do that a time or two per week, and after a month you'd probably have the cleanest fuel in the county ..... Of course, this assumes one is bright enough to have a filter on their dispensing equipment.

If ya have a hand pump, then incorporate pumping 20 or 30 gallons (split between each arm) thru the filter and back into the tank, into your daily workout .... I'm sure it would be really great for "firming and tightening" ......

No need to unnecessarily complicate the simple ....

 

[some zilch]

No need to unnecessarily complicate the simple ....

boy, i agree. i still dont understand how he has 3 tractors, and cant go through 100 gallons in 3 years. so even in the rare case the fuel *might* have issues, it wont really matter to the OP. i worked at this one quarry, that had a detroit-powered dragline that got used about once every 3 years or so to clean out a pond. i can assure there was no "periodic" filtering of the fuel, and it never had issues starting or running on pretty old fuel.

 

[LBrown59]

1*

boy, i agree. i still dont understand how he has 3 tractors, and cant go through 100 gallons in 3 years. so even in the rare case the fuel *might* have issues, it wont really matter to the OP. i worked at this one quarry, that had a detroit-powered dragline that got used about once every 3 years or so to clean out a pond. i can assure there was no "periodic" filtering of the fuel, and it never had issues starting or running on pretty old fuel.

2*

I'm lucky. I heat my house with oil (backup to firewood). So when I fill my tank I also get a 55 gal drum filled along with the equipment. It's usually a little over 300 gallons so they give me the off road fuel for the same price as the heating oil. I have pulled oil out of 275 gallon tanks that had been sitting for a year or more and burnt it with no problem.

I would fill two 55 gallon drums and make sure to seal one of them well. I think a full tank that can't breath sits well for several years.

1* and 2* So what about all this talk about always buying fresh fuel at a truck stop to avoid getting stuck with stale fuel .

Are those kind of post /statements simply because of being paranoid or what.
Or do some people have phobias about the quality of diesel ?

 

[atgreene]

I wouldn't hesitate to run 10 year old fuel. Filter it, hit it with a dose of biocide and power service and your good to go. My grandmother had an old Lister generator in her basement. She'd only use it every 3-4 years if we had an extended power outage. Wasn't unusual to have a 5 gallon can with 5+ yo diesel in it. She even kept the top open because the fuel lines stuck into the filler spout.

After seeing that, anytime someone is taking out an old heating oil tank I grab it, and the oil in it for my tractors.:licking:

Never had a problem. The key to diesel is filtering. Keep it clean and treated and the shelf life is darn near unlimited.

 

[LBrown59]

boy, i agree. i still dont understand how he has 3 tractors, and cant go through 100 gallons in 3 years.

When I was getting home delivery they came and filled my empty 55 gallon drum each summer.

 

[crazyal]

1*

2*

1* and 2* So what about all this talk about always buying fresh fuel at a truck stop to avoid getting stuck with stale fuel .

Are those kind of post /statements simply because of being paranoid or what.
Or do some people have phobias about the quality of diesel ?

I remember reading about a study where a sample was taken at the refinery and the diesel just barely passed the test to be called stable. By the time it was trucked to Florida, put into an underground tank, then pumped out into a container it no longer would pass the test. I've seen sights that list as little as 2 to 3 weeks to 4 to 6 months as the length of time to let it sit.

I've read that heat, humidity, and other outside effects play a large roll in the degradation of diesel. So every time I have stored diesel for any length of time I make sure to store it in a 55 gallon steel drum and seal it so it can't breath. Of course if you need to store it in a cool place. I also try to fill the drum to it's limit, a 55 gallon drum does not hold 55 gallons of fuel safely.

I doubt it would pass the stability test since fuel at the pump probably wouldn't. But I have done it with no problems. Since I use a clean 55 gallon drum I can look in to it and see if there's sludge on the bottom, never seen any.

As for stale fuel, I don't know about that. I do know I have had to buy diesel at a place that looked like they sold maybe 1 gallon a year. After filling up one 5 gallon container and seeing how much crud came out of the pump I stopped. I made sure to change the fuel filter afterwards and if ever in that position again I will drive further to find good fuel. If I owned a diesel truck and seeing that I would only buy from places that looked to have a high turn around. Everythign you pump into your tank will either clog up your filter or have to pass through your engine, neither is desirable.

 

[FlaDon]

I remember reading about a study where a sample was taken at the refinery and the diesel just barely passed the test to be called stable. By the time it was trucked to Florida, put into an underground tank, then pumped out into a container it no longer would pass the test. I've seen sights that list as little as 2 to 3 weeks to 4 to 6 months as the length of time to let it sit.

I've read that heat, humidity, and other outside effects play a large roll in the degradation of diesel. So every time I have stored diesel for any length of time I make sure to store it in a 55 gallon steel drum and seal it so it can't breath. Of course if you need to store it in a cool place. I also try to fill the drum to it's limit, a 55 gallon drum does not hold 55 gallons of fuel safely.

I doubt it would pass the stability test since fuel at the pump probably wouldn't. But I have done it with no problems. Since I use a clean 55 gallon drum I can look in to it and see if there's sludge on the bottom, never seen any.

As for stale fuel, I don't know about that. I do know I have had to buy diesel at a place that looked like they sold maybe 1 gallon a year. After filling up one 5 gallon container and seeing how much crud came out of the pump I stopped. I made sure to change the fuel filter afterwards and if ever in that position again I will drive further to find good fuel. If I owned a diesel truck and seeing that I would only buy from places that looked to have a high turn around. Everythign you pump into your tank will either clog up your filter or have to pass through your engine, neither is desirable.

We had to pull samples every month if we weren't running and add a biocide. Water in the bottom of the tank was drained or monitored. During pumping, the fuel never sat long enough to go bad so we skipped the biocide. A semi load of fuel was gone every 3 days per pump station that I ran and at some stations it was a semi or two per day. A 10 cylinder FM is a thirsty beast. 5 of them can really burn some fuel. Filtering started at the offload pump into the outside storage tanks. Then pumped thru a water trap/filter into the day tank. And continuous filtering at the engine with the excess returned clean and hot to the day tank. Water is the worst thing for the fuel in S. FL.