Pistol for my wife

[Raspy]

Once she has some training and some experience at a range, she'll probably start gravitating toward either a small auto or a revolver. If it is likely to lie around with little use and get little maintenance over time, look at an LCR. The simplicity and ease of use makes them very attractive. If she gets an auto make sure you decide in advance if it will always have one in the pipe or not, be on safety or not, be cocked and locked or not, etc., so there is no confusion if it's needed in a hurry.

If she doesn't shoot for fun and will only use it enough to get some practice, I recommend, again, the LCR. No gun could be simpler, lighter, easier to understand and use. She might like the LCR 357. Same exact size as the 38, but made of stainless. It is a bit heavier than the 38 aluminum model, but can run 38 ammo to reduce the over penetration and recoil. These are very easy to shoot, require minimum maintenance, are comfortable and will last a lifetime.

The problem with the Bond arms derringers is they have a very awkward trigger and are only two shots. They are flat, but not easy to use. A better choice for flatness would be an M&P bodyguard 380. Double action trigger, so no cocked and locked. Re-strike capability. Light and small. Plus, they are more fun to shoot than an LCP, at least in my hands. Either of the micro pistols from S&W or Ruger conceal very well and are very light.

As usual with a gun thread, you'll get a lot of opinions. But this is about her and what she can learn to use and trust while being safe.

I also think it's better to have a different gun at home. Carry one and have another within easy reach at home. So she should be comfortable with both and the one at home can be more comfortable to shoot because it doesn't have to be easily concealed. If you choose a revolver to carry, like an LCR, you could choose a revolver at home too, with the same ammo and operating system. Or a Bodyguard 380 to carry and a 9mm auto with the same features at home. If you do choose a Bodyguard look at the two models of them. I have the newer one without the laser and think it's a better choice for carry.

I hope this thread doesn't devolve into a discussion about calibers. She doesn't need a 44 magnum concealed in her purse. But she does need something, so it must be easy to carry. If she leaves it home because it's inconvenient, and needs it, the caliber discussion means nothing. Even a .22 would be very nice to have in a bad situation.

 

[Locoweed]

Make sure it is what ever she wants, not what you think she needs/wants. If she doesn't like it she isn't likely to want to carry it.

 

[/pine]

IMO a highly under-rated round for self defense is the .22wmr...it's light, accurate, reasonably cheap to shoot and has practically no recoil...and it's very loud...!

 

[XMS]

My wife and I teach firearms and we focus mostly on cops and new shooters (often the same thing).

We've had a lot of women come through in the last few years, and we start them out with an M&P 22. It's a rimfire version of the M&P series mid-sized guns that many people own, and given the 22lr cartridge lets us teach the "first shot" without the drama of a larger caliber. We start by loading one round, then work up slowly to more. Once we got the grip and mechanics down, we let them handle a slew of handguns to see what feels good, then we move up in caliber size. We care less about caliber at this point than safety and ergonomics. If someone likes a gun, they will shoot it. Hand someone the latest Uber-Tactical-Goblin-Killer-3000 that they don't like, and we fail.

Here are some thoughts for a new shooter, based on our observations teaching them:

- Don't presuppose a solution, but do limit initial contacts to firearms that are commonly used within your desired usage scenarios (more later). If you are going to carry a gun, don't learn on something huge. Etc. Stay close to your goals.

- There is a line of thought that "women are better with revolvers". What we find is that after shooting various models of both, every single woman we have introduced has gone for a pistol. All of them. Not one single person went for a revolver. But it's good to give the choice. Someone will chime in to say they liked the revolver and that we introduce bias, and that's fine. The lesson here is that you should not let someone tell you, "women should stick with revolvers". Try everything you can and choose for you.

- Don't focus on caliber, except to compare price of practice ammo. If a salesperson talks "stopping power", then politely ignore them and possibly go elsewhere. To be effective, you need to have concert between you, the firearm and your mind. People will sort these out on their own, and modern defensive rounds are darn good no matter the numbers stamped on the box. Where caliber matters is how much it will cost you to practice. At commercial rates, a 10-round mag of will run you about $3 for 9mm; $3.75 for .40 S&W; $5 for .45 and between $4 and $5 for .380 (though if you shop by the case and look carefully you can get it for about $3). You will need to shoot regularly, so look in your checkbook as you decide what to buy.

- Stick to reliable modern personal defense calibers, to take advantage of new loadings that are technically solid, and to be able to afford more rounds to shoot downrange as practice. Modern defense calibers include (in order of low price, to high): 9mm; .40 S&W; .45 ACP; .380 ACP. Sometimes you can get .380 cheaper than .45. Depends on the month.

- Your local range will rent Glock, S&W and some popular carry models. If you cannot find an instructor with lots of guns to try, then try the range. But don't limit yourself there. Call friends and ask to try their stuff. You need to try as many guns as you can.

- Make sure you try both double-action and single-action firearms, and know the difference. I have had a few new shooters get excited about something at the store, only to come by and discover they hate the DA trigger they didn't know they were getting. We make this a part of our introduction. Not every instructor will. Some people will shoot a DA just fine, others will miss the side of a barn with one. Ignore talk about DA being "more safe". Safety is something we make, not something from the factory (ignoring the possibility some things just break, but this is a low, low chance).

- Don't look what the police, the seals or the Israeli's carry. Seriously...get something you like rather than something some massive government agency likes. You got choices your local cop probably does not...make them. They don't have "the best"; they have "whatever the bosses gave me". FWIW, the state cops here have to carry guns with "law enforcement triggers". Don't think they are better - they are just harder to pull. This also makes it harder for them to accurately fire (for many troopers). One of my specialties lately is working with LEOs to teach them how to qualify with their "lawyer trigger" Glocks. Please don't fall into the "tacticool" trap.

- Likewise, don't fall into the "pink gun trap". We got pink guns, but they are not women-only or better/worse for women. Don't let a sales monkey talk about "guns for women". There are true ergonomic differences to take into account, but don't limit yourself to the pink/female-oriented stuff they push. The little secret in the sales industry is that there is a bit of an overload in women-themed products, so sales teams are pushing it hard to eliminate the stock. Future trends are treating women like shooters, not like "women who happen to want a gun". The upside is you can get a pink gun pretty cheap these days (our guns were discounted versions of the same gun in black, for instance, and my wife loves a sale).

- Breaking my own rules, I would suggest that you avoid a .40 S&W unless you really like it. It is not "the middle" between 9mm and .45. It is a completely different round, and I find that new shooters tend to like it in their head even when their hands shoot it poorly. There is science behind this (fast powders, etc.) but the words I hear often describe it as being "more snappy" than other calibers. It does not have a lot more recoil than others, but the recoil is faster and the impulse shorter. Try it. If you love it then great. But don't consider it the "in-between round". It's not. It stands alone (I have five .40 handguns, fwiw. I like it.)

- Specific suggestions for on-body concealed carry will vary based on personal build and willingness to "print" through clothing. Sometimes you don't want the attraction of cops in some jurisdictions where carry is legal but the local LEOs harass you for doing it.

- Find a good instructor who makes you comfortable. There are a lot of people out there instructing shooters who should not be allowed to shoot in public, let alone teach the public. Avoid all the "tactical" stuff and focus on your needs. You do not need to learn how to breach a door in a three-man stack. You do need to know how to safely and accurately access and deploy a firearm in the right scenarios. You absolutely need to understand laws on the use of force, and realize that "every bullet fired comes with a lawyer attached". If an instructor talks about how ninja he is, or dresses like a swat guy, uses the word "operator" or talks bout "big boy rules"...please run - do not walk - to the nearest exit. And never, ever stay near people that make you cringe or who ever put you at the wrong end of a gun. Bad instructors kill (really, it has happened). A good instructor will watch little muscle twitches in your hands when you slowly shoot at a simple bullseye; a great instructor will leave you with practical skills and lessons you can apply on your own to get better. There is nothing wrong with repetition. As a matter of fact, that is what you need more than anything else right now.

Overall: be comfortable with the gun. Pick a gun you like to shoot, because you will need to shoot it often if you want to stay safe. Guns are not magic talismans that ward off evil. They are tools that are dangerous to you and others if you don't practice with them.

As for models, find the ones you like to shoot and then select based on price and availability of things like holsters. You will probably need a few holsters, so think ahead and get a gun with carry options.

 

[XMS]

Note: Sorry for the length here, but I am copying from a write-up I have on this very topic so you're getting a lot in this thread.

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Small person, low visibility, concealed carry:

• Ruger LCP (.380): this thing disappears on just about anyone. Long DA trigger and no external safety. Sights kinda suck, but this is a gun where using the slide at short distance might be "good enough" at close range. You need to practice with it, but the complaint I hear is that it slaps at the hand and the light weight causes it to hurt afer a number of shots. That said, it is the most popular "mouse gun" to carry and is well-respected. It comes in several colors - we actually have one in pink for training. Smaller women generally love the feel of it, and it is light enough that my wife can carry this in a garter under a dress. If you are tiny (like my 95 pound wife), then this thing will disappear in most carry configurations.
  
• Sig P238 (.380): A little heavier than the LCP and almost twice the price. The sights are generally excellent and people almost always shoot this better than any .380 we have. External safety and a crisp SA trigger make this one an easy gun at ranges out to 20-25 yards for moderate shooters, and at ranges of 10-15 yards for new shooters. I have actually tapped steel at 50 yards with this, but it is not a competition gun. Concealability is high and it also disappears on small people. There are so many variants on this one (colors, patterns, etc.) that it would be hard to not find something cool looking (remember, if you like it you will shoot it more often). The only real differences you need to focus on between P238 models is the sight type (night sights glow and I suggest them) and the weight. There are a few "HD" models that are all-stainless/metal that are a few ounces heavier. That adds about 20% to the weight. I like the extra ounces because they makes for less felt recoil and the extra weight just feels good. Just be aware. Other than the HD models, all the models are identical other than the way they look.
  
• Beretta Nano/Kahr PM9 (9mm): Going to put these together. Both have long DA triggers and no external safety. Both conceal very well. Both fell about the same, but the Kahr has a better set of night sights. People say they "feel" these more than other guns, and I find most folks need to spend a lot more trigger time to get good with them at ranges beyond 10 yards. But they are excellent firearms.
  
• Sig P938 (9mm): the 9mm variant of the popular P238. Nearly identical size - I can use nearly all P238 holsters to hold the P938. Same sights and same operating procedures. The differences between the two are minor, except for caliber. This one takes time to master, because of the bigger caliber. At short range you can do well, but stretch out and you need to focus more than other 9mm pocket guns. Sig makes a great gun here, but I'd say that new shooters get frustrated here more than any other gun because those that love the P238 (everyone, basically) want to own this because 9mm makes it "better". No, it does not. It's not better if miss your target. The gun is inherently accurate - it comes down to the shooter. I've only had one person shoot this good right away, and he is a darn fine shooter no matter what he touches.
  
• Glock 26/M&P Shield: I treat these 9mm variants the same, because despite what people say they are cut from the same cloth. Try them both - you'll probably like one more than the other and shoot it better. That might be the slight difference in grip angle, or something else. Who cares as long as it works for you. Both of these guns are common with extended mags that let you get a full grip on the frame (As do most all guns on this list). That said, the extra mag length also makes it harder to conceal on smaller persons or those who have small waists. Both of these are bigger than the guns listed above, and that might make it harder to conceal if that matters. Both are excellent and there is much to say about reliability and ease of repair and finding holsters and after-market parts. The Glock is about as bread-and-butter a gun as you'll ever find. Think of Glock as Toyota - rarely sexy, but always taking you home. The M&P is no longer a new upstart, but it has less time on market than the Glock. That said, nothing suggests it should be looked down on.
  
• Any of the above in .40 S&W: If .40 is your thing, you'll find near-identical variants of the Kahr, Glock and M&P in .40 S&W. I can use the same holster for a Glock 26 and 27 (9mm and .40). Just be sure to try .40 against the 9mm. Don't get it because it is "better" (it is not), get it because it is better for you (accuracy, etc.).
  
• Others unmentioned: there are a lot of good guns, but this thread is already getting too long. My list includes the more popular models, which translates to an easier time finding the gun itself, holsters for that gun, and after-market support for the model (mags, gunsmiths, etc.). Oddball guns are for those who like guns, not for your first gun. Popular/common guns have the advantage of being cheaper to fix if you need it (I rarely do).
  
• Revolvers: I like them, but my new shooters do not. Try them and decide. Ammo will generally be more pricey, though.

Mid-sized guns: Glock 19 is the standard bearer for all mid-sized semi-auto pistols. Biggest seller of all time and crazy reliable - I have one that hasn't been decently cleaned in probably two thousand rounds and still goes boom every time. There are all kinds of guns like it, and many of them are good or better. Rather than list hem, consider that once you get above small carry gun, the universe expands. That said, they are harder to conceal. They are also easier to shoot accurately, and carry more rounds. They are more comfortable to shoot, for sure. Big hands probably would have a hard time shooting most of the little guns on the above list, but be good with most any mid-sized or larger frame.

 

[texasjohn]

Superb comments so far. two ideas
Flashbang bra holster demo. Fast, safe and practical. - YouTube for female concealed carry
PF-9 | Pistols | Kel-tec lightest, smallest, thinnest 9mm on market, I have 2, several years, never fail to fire, easy pocket carry or in purse or ??

 

[XMS]

Superb comments so far. two ideas
Flashbang bra holster demo. Fast, safe and practical. - YouTube for female concealed carry
PF-9 | Pistols | Kel-tec lightest, smallest, thinnest 9mm on market, I have 2, several years, never fail to fire, easy pocket carry or in purse or ??

The flashbang is not a bad product, but I would never suggest it for a new shooter. The problem with storing firearms in a sideways fashion (shoulder holster, under-arm, bra holster, whatever) is that to deploy the firearm you have to "muzzle over" a space that is not the target or the ground. Pulling the gun from the bra means you sweep to your side (same with a shoulder rig). Add some stress and a need for speed and bad things might happen. For the same reason, I steer people away from appendix-carry options, but this time to save the shooter from possibilities.

I am not saying "they are bad", just saying "they are bad for shooters who do not have a near-perfect muscle memory on how to safely use a gun". And note that "near perfect" is as good as we'll ever get. I know women who work in the industry, and they tried the FB. They don't use it, though. They say it seems awkward. My wife didn't try it - she's so small that she doesn't quite have the requisite anatomy to hide a gun up there.

My wife has both garter and corset carry holsters that work pretty well. Both have a more direct path path for deployment.

 

[texasjohn]

I bow to experience...my point was that a purse is not ALWAYS with a female while a body holster of some kind is. Just one more option.

 

[Garandman]

XMS advice is spot on! That is exactly the kind of instructor you want!

 

[XMS]

...my point was that a purse is not ALWAYS with a female while a body holster of some kind is. Just one more option.

Absolutely. Yup. Lose your purse to a thief and you arm a thief. Sorry if I came across disagreeable. I was just suggesting slightly better options.

I think women a have a lot more options for carry than a man, these days.

Check out CanCan Concealment, for instance. My wife has products from them and from others. All high quality.

XMS advice is spot on! That is exactly the kind of instructor you want!

That is kind of you, and I'd love to say it'll make us rich. But we donate our time, our range -- and for new shooters, we even donate the ammo.