Shooting and property lines

[MikePA]

<font color="blue">Mike, based on Okee Dons anti gun rhetoric on this forum, combined with the comments he has privately emailed me and others, I doubt the sincerity of this. It is far more likely Just another platform to propell his political stance. Now If you read that "Harsh" that is a individual choice. </font>
Now that you've described how you interpreted OkeeDon's post, 'harsh' is not the adjective I should have used to describe what you wrote.

<font color="blue"> You seem to be makeing a number of assumptions on Dons behalf. </font>
Just one assumption, i.e., OkeeDon was honestly seeking the opinions of other TBNers.

<font color="blue">I personally, and I suspect you as well, Would have confronted them in the act or called the police. </font>
OkeeDon stated that (1) The property they are shooting toward is his future home, i.e., OkeeDon isn't living there. (2) His daughter lives in the adjacent property and saw this activity and did not want to confront them so she told her dad. (3) The owners (shooters) live out of town (4) OkeeDon was seeking advice for a game plan as to what to say the next time he sees them on the property.

<font color="blue"> It smacks of Politics </font>
Based upon the reasoning process you described that you followed, it does.

<font color="blue"> If I'm not misstaken is clearly against the rules here. </font>
Correct, threads about politics are not allowed.

 

[OkeeDon]

<font color="blue"> I wonder if its possible that you had some intoxicated trespassers. </font>

That could actually be the case, because we don't know who the new owners are, yet. However, along with the ATV's they brought along, this past Saturday they also had a Dixie Chopper type mower, and mowed the field grass on the entire property, so I suspect they have some interest in the property.

The property has always been vacant but was totally overgrown until a few months ago. It was purchased by another couple who clear cut it, brought in fill for a house pad, but ran out of money to build. They sold it around the first week of November. Our tax rolls are only updated once a month, and the last time was 11/14, too soon for the sale to be updated.

I can understand how you could feel that my daughter did not do the right thing by not calling 9-11, but she said it was because she thought I would have to be the one to call, because it was my property they were shooting towards.

 

[OkeeDon]

Update: Since reading the replies, I contacted my daughter again. It's easier to describe this if I use some first names. Dale is the Chief of Detectives; his wife is Judy, my daughter is Amy.

I had Amy call Judy, who then contacted Dale. Dale immediately called back to Amy. Dale said there are no written ordinances in the County about shooting on your own property, except that it has to be done in a safe manner. He told Amy that the next time she saw it, she should call 9-11; that they didn't have to be shooting towards her property. He told her she didn't have to decide whether it was in a safe manner or not, just to call. He said that the Deputy would not identify her (Amy), so she didn't have to worry about that. Dale said that the Deputy would determine if it was safe or not.

I had really wanted to avoid having our new neighbor's first introduction to the neighborhood be a visit from a Deputy, but after reading the replies on the forum, and hearing what Dale had to say, that will be the course we will follow. unless I am there and get a chance to talk it over in a more neighborly way.

Thanks for everyone's help. I'd still like to find the link to that other thread about target backstops and such; maybe I can help my neighbor do his shooting in a safer manner. When I did my own target shooting, in Massachusets when I lived there, and at our mountain cabin before I decided there would be no more rifles there, I had a steep hill at least 200' high as my backstop.

My training in gun safety came from two people. One was a member of the Marine Reserve national pistol team. He went to a range every morning to practice, almost every day of the year, and liked to have company. I got to use one of his backup pistols (both .22 and .45) (no one could touch his match pistols /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif ), I went with him on the average of once a week for almost a year. The other was my roommate before I was married; he was a Boston City policeman who also liked company at the range. I used his backup .38 revolver. So, I'm not quite as "anti-gun" as some would like to insinuate, and, in fact, stated that several times on the "other" thread, but was apparently not believed.

I also wasn't a very good shot with a pistol, but in ROTC I scored Expert with a rifle, for whatever that's worth, it was with a .22 in an indoor range.

 

[higgy]

If we make some basic assumptions here the bullet should not go more than 100 to 150 yards, IF, the gun was shot level and the person shooting it was aproximatly 6 foot tall, AND, they were shooting a 22 rimfire with a 36 or so grain bullet and the velocity of the shot was approximatly 1200 feet/sec, AND, the weather was near or at STP. Having said that, I would worry aswell. THis is not about being for or against guns, it is about saftey of people. I would not want someone shooting that close to my house as you never know whare a rickoshay(SP?) may go. But it would be at a vector of less than 90 degrees from the flight path, and that may hit a house or other object.

 

[Docsknotinn]

Mike, There was recently a post deleted on another strand and one of the key indicators the moderator pointed out was the quoting of another person as a key indicator that any given strand might be on a down ward spiral. Now I am all for any debate as long as we can all agree like men to dissagree agreeably. The only thing that rubs me the wrong way, for more than a few moments anyhow /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif, is when some one does not like the path and hits the " notify moderator " button. Now in regards to this I would raise the same questions no matter who posted. Its very unusual to see such detail from some one who was not presant, and getting details from a freightened witness. Don did say this is his property and has the satellite photo labeled as such. He even states he has a fuel tank on his property. Now in regards to the other strand and back stops there simply is no way, at least in my minds eye, to justify the construction of a backstop faceing your neighbors land. If Don has five acres, this lot is maybee two acres. That is simply insufficient land to discharge a firearm on with immediate neighbors. The other strand Don was referring to was with the Tonester and he and I both have well over 150 acres. We have built berms and used dirt mounds filled with stumps etc in the CENTER of our property well away from others. Like Don has done in the past we both also try to utilize the topography or natural hills as a safe back stop. Don when I say or refer to you as being anti gun I am just referring to your first post here.

 

[OkeeDon]

<font color="blue">If Don has five acres, this lot is maybee two acres. That is simply insufficient land to discharge a firearm on with immediate neighbors. </font>

It's exactly (well, as exactly as plat maps ever get) 2.5 acres (the math actually comes out to 2.50688+ acres). My initial thought was that it was insufficient area to safely shoot, but on the other hand, I really don't want to do anything that would jeopardize their enjoyment of the property. This is a rural county; it's normal, it's expected. My guess would be that I will be one of the few non-shooters in the entire county. If they can do it without any danger to me, that's OK with me. Maybe they checked the place carefully to be sure I wasn't working on the other side of some brush, and won't do it when we are there.

I did finally find the other thread; there sure isn't any 1-1/2 miles downrange -- the longest distance in any direction before something gets in the way is less than a quarter of a mile (the house to the West of their property).

By the way, if you doubt that the photo I used is of my property, here's a link to the county appraiser's site: Okeechobee Property Appraiser. Click on Record Search, enter in Horner Donald, click Run Search, then click on the link for the GIS map. Click on the property to the West, and it comes up Wood, Douglas and Amy H (Amy Horner Wood). Click on the one to the South, and it comes up Duane Brown, who bought it in May, 2003. The sale in the first half of November to the new owners is not yet recorded; note that the last update was 11/14/2003, and it takes them a couple of weeks to do the data entry.

Note the exact same layout in the plat map as the satellite photo. What do you think I did, picked some property at random so I could rabble rouse? I hope this clears up yet another of your wild goose guesses. Do you really think I'm making all this up? What would be the point? How does raising this issue threaten any gun owners? Get real.

 

[BillG_in_TX]

Don,

I think you are looking for this thread, started by DocHeb last year.

I wonder what eventually happened with his situation. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[slowzuki]

This is an interesting thread, in Canada, well, New Brunswick at least, you must be 300 m (1000 ft) from a building to hunt. If you own the building, you must be something like 100m from it.

The laws don't really recognize plinking or target shooting outside of a gun range. To walk into the woods with a gun and shoot targets you really need to be in some game season and have a licence or you will get busted!

 

[OkeeDon]

Bill, that's the one I was looking for, and this is the advice I thought I remembered:

Ed Dekker wrote, <font color="blue"> If I was in your situation I would talk to the neighbor and explain that he now has a neighbor and can no longer assume that your property is empty. I would insist that your neighbor bring his range up to the NRA range standards, without relying on your property as the unoccupied safety zone, before using it the next time. (He will not be able to meet the standards but may not realize this.) Depending on his personality it will be far harder for him to object to the NRA standards than to a group perceived as 'anti-gun' and shows that you are making for a reasonable request. The NRA offers reasonably priced consulting on range safety and design. This may be useful if you need someone to interpret the handbook for him.
</font>

There were many other thoughtful replies on that thread, as well, much like most of them on this thread. Thanks.

 

[BIGUN]

Junkman,
BATF tried implementing their own federal gun registration program several years ago without congressional approval. They were punished by having their budget slashed about 50%. A neighbor of mine who worked for the US Border Patrol said he remembered when that happened. He said they and the BATF boys were usually given about 6 boxes of ammo a year to use for target practice. He said that year the BATF guys each got an allotment of 6 rounds. That got them some laughs from the Border Patrol people. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

OkeeDon,
Maybe your problem can be solved as easily as mine once was. We lived in a rural subdivision with two very small children. One day while out in the garden with the kids we started hearing multiple gunshots from a house that was just past the two, 2 acre, lots next to our house. I didn’t know which way they were shooting and the thought of a stray round hitting one of my kids was more than I could bare so I drove down to the house to investigate. The man and his son were shooting the opposite direction, into a small dirt backstop they had made, with .22 rifles. I told him I just wanted to make sure we weren’t in danger. He said we won’t shoot any more. I told him I didn’t mind as long as I knew we were safe, but he never shot there again to my knowledge. I think they have since passed legislation in Texas making it illegal to shoot in even rural subdivisions with lots under a certain size. I can’t say that I NEVER fired a round while living there, but it was very few and certainly didn’t target practice out of respect for the neighbors. The noise is bothersome even inside the house and I would say the VAST majority of residents would not appreciate it even if they are pro-gun and especially if they are not. Can’t think of a better way for a gun owner to turn a neutral citizen antigun than to be blazing away next door to his family and property on a regular basis.