trailer controler

[Soundguy]

yep... kinda like putting auto ejection seats, with a fire retardant pop up fully enclosed canopy with self contained breathing masks and auto deploy parachutes on every seat in a jet liner. add to that radio beacons and sat phones, 1st aid kits and emergency food/water/survival kits including signal and communication devices .... all keyed to instantly deploy in the event of a 'critical' condition occuring on the aircraft, as determined by millions of dollars of high speed computers, sensors, and a team of real time data anylists monitoring the flight telemetry etc...

the technology to do this DOES exist.. and I bet the survival rate for an air liner accident would dramatically increase..

so using the logic in this thread.. since that would be the BEST tech available.. then it should be used mind you that seat would probably cost 20K$ per flight.. but heck.. it's the best right?

soundguy

 

[Raspy]

if you completely disconnect a brake line and insert a new fitting and new line and DONT bleed the system.... thats just plain stupid. It is a absolute FACT that you will get air into the system that will HAVE to be bled out when you do the install. there is absolutely no way to avoid it, and in fact, the instructions for install specifically say to bleed the system.

Well, to be more specific. Your right. But you don't have to go under and do each wheel in the traditional sense. Since the tee goes in at the top of the brake line and right at the master cylinder, it leaks a bit of fluid as you go and a slight step on the brake, or just gravity, forces the very small or even non existant air bubble out right there as you screw in the transducer plug. Done right no air gets beyond the tee and down into the system. So it's not a real and difficult bleeding operation. And it's not "stupid" to avoid doing something you don't need to do.

I'm only making the point that to say it's dangerous to tamper with the braking system and use that as a reason to avoid this controller is fine if you want to play it that way, but it is really no big deal and brings with it a lot of benefit. A small plug transducer, teed into one line will not lead to brake failure.

I understand that some must make excuses to not do what they don't want to do and and I'm fine with that. The cost is higher and that is a deterant. But cost and fear don't cause brake failure. The best thing is to see what is really there. I don't care if someone else doesn't want to use one of these. I'm just glad I have it after using the other types over many years. I thought I'd recommend it because it has clear advantages.

Even a cheap controller is better than nothing. I had a friend recently that was planning to drive clear across the country and back towing a trailer. He wasn't going to install a brake controller at all! Something about the hundred bucks or so wasn't worth it and the hassle of plugging it in took too much time, etc. He'd been towing for years and hadn't had a problem yet, bla, bla, bla. Well, I gave him an old Tekonsha and sent him on his way after insisting he use one. I think those with the least experience, or those that haven't been scared by some trailer dynamics, are the ones most adamant they don't need one.

 

[Raspy]

yep... kinda like putting auto ejection seats, with a fire retardant pop up fully enclosed canopy with self contained breathing masks and auto deploy parachutes on every seat in a jet liner. add to that radio beacons and sat phones, 1st aid kits and emergency food/water/survival kits including signal and communication devices .... all keyed to instantly deploy in the event of a 'critical' condition occuring on the aircraft, as determined by millions of dollars of high speed computers, sensors, and a team of real time data anylists monitoring the flight telemetry etc...

the technology to do this DOES exist.. and I bet the survival rate for an air liner accident would dramatically increase..

so using the logic in this thread.. since that would be the BEST tech available.. then it should be used mind you that seat would probably cost 20K$ per flight.. but heck.. it's the best right?

soundguy

Yeah, you make a good point. Cost can be impractical. Safety can be impractical. Nothing's gonna happen. No big deal.

Then you find your truck and trailer jackknifed and upside down in a ditch with your family inside and you begin to ask yourself if saving a couple hundred bucks and making fun of those that took the extra precaution was the best choice.

Probably nothing will happen and cheap is better. So we all weigh the risks of what we do. I don't mind doing a bit more to help make things a lot better.

That's why I run load range E tires instead of passenger car tires that are less than half the cost. I take the time to load the trailer correctly and tie things down. I wear my seat belt. I don't drink and drive. You won't see me towing my tractor at 75 MPH either, even though nothing, probably, will happen.

Cost is always important and we all draw the line somewhere. For some of us, mechanical upgrades are very easy to do and seem worth it. To each his own.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I for one and a big fan of the Brake Smart. Till you used one and tow a real load you will not know what your are missing. I do not have one but I do have a 2006 F-350 Powerstroke with the factory brake controller. It works just like the Brake Smart. I have installed a BrakeSmart for a customer in a 07 Dmax and he loves it. He had a P3 but complained about always adjusting it when he got off the highway, in town, ect. Very simple to install and safe with dual circuit brake master cylinders. If you are worried about the little T failing that is nuts. There are 100's of parts in a modern brake system and they very rarely fail.

I also have a P3 in my 04 F-250 Powerstroke and its ok at best. No match for the Ford system.

I have just a cheap $80 Reece in my 07 Titan and it works ok for the few times it pulls a trailer with electric brakes.

I am a guilty as any other but at $400 or less the Brake Smart is affordable. Think of what you are towing. The cheapest thing I tow is my tandem trailer with my tractor, about $20,000, the most expensive thing is a $200,000 customers boat. If it gives me a edge in stopping at it has been show to do, its well worth the extra $$$$.

Chris

 

[tlbuser]

I'm running the Maxbrake and really like it. Swapping trailers, in town, open road doesn't matter. The unit gets calibrated to the truck once and you're done. Overkill, maybe. Is it one of the best affordable safety options I could add? Definitely.

This was snipped from another TBN thread, "I saw this Max Brake system being installed on TV last week and was very impressed. It looks like it uses the same technology as the Ford system. It was tested against a Prodigy P3 and was able to best the stopping distances by 40% on average. They were using a 1 ton dually and a tri axle goose neck car haul trailer. The Prodigy P3 took over 500 feet from 55 to stop and the Max Brake took just over 300 feet."

 

[Diamondpilot]

I'm running the Maxbrake and really like it. Swapping trailers, in town, open road doesn't matter. The unit gets calibrated to the truck once and you're done. Overkill, maybe. Is it one of the best affordable safety options I could add? Definitely.

This was snipped from another TBN thread, "I saw this Max Brake system being installed on TV last week and was very impressed. It looks like it uses the same technology as the Ford system. It was tested against a Prodigy P3 and was able to best the stopping distances by 40% on average. They were using a 1 ton dually and a tri axle goose neck car haul trailer. The Prodigy P3 took over 500 feet from 55 to stop and the Max Brake took just over 300 feet."

That quote was from me a few years back. It was the first time I had seen it and was very impressed. After using one like the Ford Integrated Controller or the Max Brake its tough to go back. Like you said it just makes life easier and safer while doing it. I know its a lot of money. If I could justify them for my other 2 trucks I would get them but I just do not tow electric brake trailers that often with them. When I do tow using the FIC its a much nicer experience and I know the one Brake Max I installed in a Dmax is much happier pulling his 14,000# 5th wheel. He just got back from a 8,600 mile 5 week trip last Sunday.

Chris

 

[Soundguy]

do the integrated controlers use brake pressure or are they intertial only?

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

you are going 100% the opposite way.

i never said best wasn't better.. and I never said it wasn't needed. I merely said in most cases you don't need the best to do average work.

If someone hauled every day and or long hauls.. better equipoment would be called for.

if you haul a garbage can down to the dump 1x per month.. I'm not sure you need a controller tied into your hyd brake system.

all depends on the use and user... nothing more.. nothing less.

any my previous message wasn't making fun of anybody.

so far of the 3 controllers I currently have.. they all seem to stop the trailer fine. this prodigy does have some bells and whistles though..

soundguy

Yeah, you make a good point. Cost can be impractical. Safety can be impractical. Nothing's gonna happen. No big deal.

Then you find your truck and trailer jackknifed and upside down in a ditch with your family inside and you begin to ask yourself if saving a couple hundred bucks and making fun of those that took the extra precaution was the best choice.

Probably nothing will happen and cheap is better. So we all weigh the risks of what we do. I don't mind doing a bit more to help make things a lot better.

That's why I run load range E tires instead of passenger car tires that are less than half the cost. I take the time to load the trailer correctly and tie things down. I wear my seat belt. I don't drink and drive. You won't see me towing my tractor at 75 MPH either, even though nothing, probably, will happen.

Cost is always important and we all draw the line somewhere. For some of us, mechanical upgrades are very easy to do and seem worth it. To each his own.

 

[Diamondpilot]

do the integrated controlers use brake pressure or are they intertial only?

soundguy

The Ford controller uses brake pressure just like the Brake Max. My uncle made a bone head move and forgot to order the controller when he ordered his 2005 F-350 4x4. It was only a $165 option. Anyway when he went to install it on his truck, at nearly $600, he had to change the master cylinder because it uses a different on if equipped with the controller.

Its a steal at $165 from the factory. In my opinion it should be installed on all tow package equipped trucks.

I assume the one GM now has works much the same way and I believe Dodge now has one also from about 09 on. I am guessing it works the same way.

Chris

 

[rjkobbeman]

Thirty years ago I remember my dad connecting a brake controller to his pickup. It tapped into the brake hydraulics. Seemed to make sense to me. Totally based on how hard you press on the brake pedal.

Skip ahead 20 years (after not messing with towing), I am hooking up my first brake controller. New Expedition came with a pig-tail to connect in the electrical system. Seemed cool, but didn't make sense to me. Anyway, bought a controller and got it working. Very smooth, easy installation... but still didn't get how this thing would sense how hard you are pressing on the brake pedal. Then I realized it didn't! Don't know if it was the brand I bought, but it basically started out slow and gradually applied more and more brake... once it sensed you hitting the brakes. I hated it. Everytime I hit the brakes, there was a little delay before the trailer brakes would come on... they they would grab more and more and more until I let off of the brake pedal. Seems really stupid to me.

Yeah, I can adjust the controller... but the behavior remained the same. Was just able to dial up or dial down the behavior.

Hydraulic based controller still seems to make the most sense to me. However the electrical ones are VERY easy to install... especially for the average joe.

Of course, I'm not hauling big loads with my Expy either. Just an occasional camper trailer or Bobcat from the rental place.

I guess they each have their place and use.