New R28 Montana with Back hoe

alltoys · Aug 1, 2008

Bought it about 3 weeks ago. I was thinking either a tractor or Skid Steer. Glad I got this unit instead. Although for moving dirt and such a Skid Steer is much faster only not as versatile as the tractor.

I have a good deal of Corral Fencing to remove weathered planking and posts. Most of all mountains of Manure. Previous owner was lazy to say the least. Just piled it up in the Corrals instead of spreading it over the land. I counted all the planking to day to replace all of it would cost well over $200,000. If anyone wants free weathered planking let me know.

Back hoe is a 3pt hitch type I know they say watch out for mounting points breaking. One thing I see on this hoe that is different than other types is how it mounts to the tractor. The upper link is very sturdy when outriggers are up 3pt arms can maybe move a 1/2 inch. Once the locking pins are in there is very little movement at all. Outriggers down I can lift the rear end off the ground easily front too with the bucket. Very stable traveling or digging. Only thing I find different is the controls are backwards compared to real Hoes. I have operated Case Rubber tired hoes and Link Belt track hoes. The controls on my Montana are backwards compared to them. I will soon make a fixed tooth for a grapple on the Hoe, I do have lots rocks on my property which the previous owner seemed to have liked to collect too. Hoe will work out great removing them.

Things I like about my Montana is the quick change bucket just like that of the Skid Steers for a variety of front end attachments. A third hydraulic on the front end to run post hole augers or what ever. 4x4 and a second hydraulic on the rear for post pounders or what ever. Oh yes it is easy on fuel as well I am impressed.

Only thing I am not crazy about is the tight area around the seat but at least all controls are easily accessed.

JackMentink · Aug 16, 2008

What kind of Backhoe did you get for it? Was it one of the Montana ones (Amerquip) or did you buy a different brand. What size is it? I have a 3644 and wanted to see how yours did with a backhoe.

rcowan · Aug 16, 2008

Congrats on the R28.

Let us know how the 3pt hoe works out. I would like one but can't quite convince the CFO

JDeerekid · Aug 16, 2008

How is your third hydraulic hooked up for the front? Do you have pictures. I wanted that hooked up when I bought the tractor but didn't do it. eventually want to get a grapple.

alltoys · Aug 21, 2008

JackMentink said:
What kind of Backhoe did you get for it? Was it one of the Montana ones (Amerquip) or did you buy a different brand. What size is it? I have a 3644 and wanted to see how yours did with a backhoe.

I have the Montana brand MBH76 hoe a full 8ft depth to the end of the bucket. So far it works very good. I would have liked to have a 10ft depth but the sales guy told me it would have been to much for the tractor. I made a thumb for it and it helps immensely for moving rocks and other stuff that weighs to much to handle. 28hp handles it fine. I find I have to run the motor around 1500 to 1800 rpm to keep the jurkyness out of the controls. One thing about this hoe for tractors that I like that the others don't have is a very heavy top link. When the down riggers are out there is no movement in the hoe connected to the tractor, one solid unit. Your 3644 would handle this attachment very well since yours is a larger tractor you could get the longer hoe and couple extra feet is always a help.

alltoys · Aug 21, 2008

JDeerekid said:
How is your third hydraulic hooked up for the front? Do you have pictures. I wanted that hooked up when I bought the tractor but didn't do it. eventually want to get a grapple.

Will have to research on how to include pictures on this site. The 3rd hydraulic is controlled by electric button on the FEL control. Hit the button then operate the mounted equipment. I wanted this specially to run a front mounted post hole auger so I can put down force on the attachment. With the quick change front end I love it for putting on different stuff without having to mess around with pins and lining it all up like that of the 3pt hitch. It was a $300 option when I bought the tractor a good investment I thought.

alltoys · Aug 21, 2008

rcowan said:
Congrats on the R28.
Let us know how the 3pt hoe works out. I would like one but can't quite convince the CFO

So far I like it can't imagine doing without it. The problems I do have with it and this goes for other tractor mounted hoes as well. I can't operate more than 2 directions at once. For instance left hand operates boom left and right, boom up and down. Right hand boom out and in, bucket curl in and curl out.

I would like to run the boom to the left or right then out, down and bucket curl in at the same time. It will only do 2 functions at one time one with the left hand the second with the right hand. Although once you understand how it works then you adjust yourself accordingly. I have operated rubber tired hoes and track hoes and I could do multi functions all at once to make things faster. I find it has more than enough power to dig what ever you need. So far I have used to dig a trench and move large rocks from my property. I made a stone boat and use the thumb on the hoe to move 1000 lb rocks onto it without any problem.

One more thing I am not keen about but it works. For the hydraulic control that feeds fluid to the hoe attachment it has to be held with zip tie to keep it open. I would prefer a lock of some sort. Move it to the open then put it into a notch of some sort to keep the flow of hydraulics moving. Oh well it works and I am not going to do without the hoe a definite plus.

JDeerekid · Aug 21, 2008

alltoys said:
Will have to research on how to include pictures on this site. The 3rd hydraulic is controlled by electric button on the FEL control. Hit the button then operate the mounted equipment. I wanted this specially to run a front mounted post hole auger so I can put down force on the attachment. With the quick change front end I love it for putting on different stuff without having to mess around with pins and lining it all up like that of the 3pt hitch. It was a $300 option when I bought the tractor a good investment I thought.

Does the $300 consist of everything including the electric in the button and hoses to the front. If it only cost that I would have gotten it a long time ago. My dealer scared me becuase he told me it would cost alot and just to run hoses from the back of the tractor to the front. I would rather have the buttons on the loader control instead of reaching for another handle everytime you use it. Please post pictures as I would like to see what it consists of. Do you also have a part number?

Have you used the front posthole digger yet or is it just an option in the future. Just wonder if the hydraulics are sufficient.

Thanks

alltoys · Aug 22, 2008

Yes the price it included all hoses and all. I believe the third hydraulic is operated by one of the hoses on the FEL. I have taken a few pics will try to include them into this post.

alltoys · Aug 22, 2008

Here is the splitter for the third hydraulic in the front of the FEL.

alltoys · Aug 22, 2008

I haven't tried any extra front attachment as of yet. I was told it will handle the post hole auger from a Bobcat. That's one of the reasons I bought the Montana because of the higher fluid out put of the hydraulics than other tractors. Mind you it doesn't have the high capacity of a skid steer but close.

Hope those pictures help.

JDeerekid · Aug 22, 2008

Thanks for posting the pics alltoys. If I can get the 3rd fucntion kit for that price I am going to order it, either way I am going to call my dealer next week and find out what my cost would be. I am wanting one for a grapple that I would like to purchase soon. And in the future maybe a plow for the loader.

Also can I asked you to take a couple more pictures?? I would like to see where the hoses connect under or in back of the tractor from the splitter for the 3rd function valve.

Why do you have to ziptie the handle?? Are all backhoes hooked up like that???

Also that is one mean looking thumb you built. I bet that does come in handy for moving rocks and stumps.

Well thanks a bunch and it is nice that we can help one another out with questions and stuff.

JackMentink · Aug 22, 2008

How much did the backhoe part for your montana cost?

I'd love to get one, but don't know if I could swing the money for one.

alltoys · Aug 23, 2008

JDeerkid,

I ziptie the handle because the handle will not stay full on because of it being spring loaded. Most tractors have a notch for the handle to lock in place but this one does not.

Thumb works great can't imagine working without.

Have to wait for pics I am not sure where they hook up under the deck that will have to wait for a nonrainy day here.

JackMentink,

$6500 was the cost of the hoe in a package price along with 3rd hydraulics on the FEL, 2 separate hydraulic operations for the rear, and an extra gear range on the tractor.

alltoys · Aug 25, 2008

JDeerKid,

Don't know why I didn't see this before but the 3rd hydraulic is supplied by the loader tilt cylinder, tied in at the input to the nearest cylinder. See pick to understand.

skipro3 · Aug 28, 2008

I have a 4344HST and just called my dealer to see what adding the 3rd function kit would cost. (Also known as a diverter valve). He said it was $607 and included the install. He said he could order it and have it in a week. So, it seems, just like with buying a car, it's cheaper to have the option added at the factory than after delivery!!

The other option is to use one of the spools from the back of the tractor. That seems a little clunky because you need to use two hands to operate both levers. Might be hard to drive. I do read threads where people have done each of these methods though and have to train themselves to operate them either way. The option using the existing rear spool would cost me about $130 in hydraulic lines and fittings. Sure is much cheaper to go that way.

JackMentink · Aug 28, 2008

SkiPro3. Its really not that bad to use the second hand for the grapple operation. You really don't use the grapple that much and its just to squeeze and pick something up and then release it. I ran mine from the back and it really has worked well on my 3644. It would be different if it would be the loader operation as their you have to move small amounts in several directions. With the grapple, its all on or all off so much less precise. if I did mine over again I would do it exactly the same way and use the $500 for something else.

That's my opinion.

That and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee.

Jack

skipro3 · Aug 28, 2008

Thanks for that input Jack. I've been doing some research on this today and here's what I have discovered....
1. First, the way alltoys has his 3rd feature on his FEL is basically a diverter valve. This valve is controlled by a solenoid. Now, that's fine if all your planning on using it for is the few seconds it takes to open or close a grapple thumb. But he wants to use it for the operation of an auger. That means he will be holding in that electric solenoid for 10 minutes or more at a time while the hole is being bored. That solenoid will NOT hold up. It will burn out and pretty quickly too. And, while he's busy diverting that power to pushing down on the auger bit, the other hydraulic functions will not be operational because it's an all-on or all -off propision; not metered. That may or may not be important.

2. I looked at that rear dual spool on the back of my 4344. It has an input/pressure side feeding that spool as well as an output/low-return side. By placing a Tee fitting on these two points and running them to a separate valve, two buttons could be added to the joystick to operate the grapple; one that makes the grapple go open and one that makes it go closed. This keeps the other two functions of the FEL in service while working the grapple instead of switching/ diverting the hydraulic pressure between the tip and the grapple.

In any case, I'm in agreement that dropping my hand off the joystick to bump the grapple open or closed is the best operation of the devise and it has the added benefit of allowing me to work an attachment like an auger for several minutes at a time without burning up a solenoid. Several hydraulic techs I spoke with today all told me to NOT include any electronics to control hydraulic pressures for anything longer than a quick and short operation. They won't hold up.

I recommend to anyone considering using their tractor for any accessories to consult a hydraulic expert who will listen to what you are trying to accomplish and can advise you.

alltoys · Sep 1, 2008

skipro3 said:
Thanks for that input Jack. I've been doing some research on this today and here's what I have discovered....
1. First, the way alltoys has his 3rd feature on his FEL is basically a diverter valve. This valve is controlled by a solenoid. Now, that's fine if all your planning on using it for is the few seconds it takes to open or close a grapple thumb. But he wants to use it for the operation of an auger. That means he will be holding in that electric solenoid for 10 minutes or more at a time while the hole is being bored. That solenoid will NOT hold up. It will burn out and pretty quickly too. And, while he's busy diverting that power to pushing down on the auger bit, the other hydraulic functions will not be operational because it's an all-on or all -off propision; not metered. That may or may not be important.

2. I looked at that rear dual spool on the back of my 4344. It has an input/pressure side feeding that spool as well as an output/low-return side. By placing a Tee fitting on these two points and running them to a separate valve, two buttons could be added to the joystick to operate the grapple; one that makes the grapple go open and one that makes it go closed. This keeps the other two functions of the FEL in service while working the grapple instead of switching/ diverting the hydraulic pressure between the tip and the grapple.

In any case, I'm in agreement that dropping my hand off the joystick to bump the grapple open or closed is the best operation of the devise and it has the added benefit of allowing me to work an attachment like an auger for several minutes at a time without burning up a solenoid. Several hydraulic techs I spoke with today all told me to NOT include any electronics to control hydraulic pressures for anything longer than a quick and short operation. They won't hold up.

I recommend to anyone considering using their tractor for any accessories to consult a hydraulic expert who will listen to what you are trying to accomplish and can advise you.

Just a couple of things might make it better with the system I have. The electric valve is on when the button is pushed and stays open till the button is hit again. While it is open the joy stick operates the attachment. This way the grapple will open or close, Auger rotates in one direction or can be changed to operate in the other direction. This concept is the same that is used on skid steers and have been used for years. I had the identical system on my John Deer 7775 used it for years without any problems. Either way it was installed by the dealer and is covered by warranty.

JDeerekid · Sep 1, 2008

alltoys said:
Just a couple of things might make it better with the system I have. The electric valve is on when the button is pushed and stays open till the button is hit again. While it is open the joy stick operates the attachment. This way the grapple will open or close, Auger rotates in one direction or can be changed to operate in the other direction. This concept is the same that is used on skid steers and have been used for years. I had the identical system on my John Deer 7775 used it for years without any problems. Either way it was installed by the dealer and is covered by warranty.

Just a couple questions. Doyou know if your 3rd function is a true 3rd function or just a diverter? Do you still have control to tilt/curl the bucket and up/down of loader?
I would assume you have the diverter becuase it only has 1 switch, which should be cheaper that the actual third function. I contacted W. R. Long and got an approximate price of around $600 - $700 for parts and install myself for the true 3rd function kit, which allows you to keep all your other functions. I also email montana and got the part number for the kit (MTFKU1), but did not tell me if it is a diverter or true 3rd function. Right now I am looking for a 2 button rocker switch that will go into our loader control handle and get the parts for the rest of the 3rd funtion froma surplus supply. I have another thread started in the attachments section trying to find parts and ask questions about the 3rd function. Any input from the montana guys would be appreciated.