OK-What do you think I broke??

[MFRED]

MY FAULT- picked up a Camaro front sub frame (including wheels&tires) with the fel, wood chipper on back, needed 4wd to move it. (front tires near flat)!

Really, you think this had nothing to do with it?
Should have a 60/40 split, 60% of the weight needs to be on the rear axle. If you need to put it in 4wd to move with a load in the bucket, you need more ballast or it might just be TOO HEAVY!

 

[ray66v]

There is absoloutly NO bearing damage, every component in the front end looks as new, just outstandingly worn ring and pinion.

I do not intend replacing any other parts in the front end assembly except for new O rings, there is not any bearing damage or other gear damage.

I will also add 1 quart of sae 80/90 oil to the front end hydraulic fluid lube at re-assembly, will also pop the pinion housing out at about the next 100hrs, easy to do without removing the complete front axle.

Will report on dealer comments and Mr Massey and Mr Ferguson's comments when they look at returned parts.

I will accept that there is no other damage.

However; I'm puzzled then. Since there is no sign of breakage, as I would have expected to see. Obviously, your left with the question: Is the severe wear a result of either a defect in the gears, failure of the lubricant, or simply an overload, that neither could possibly withstand?

In all of the above, I would have expected the wear to be more smooth, and more directional, similar to normal wear patterns. Without the rough, hammered look they are exhibiting.

The other puzzling thing is: What is causing the continuous clunking noise, if there are no teeth missing? I guess the wear is severe enough that the pinion gear is skipping. But, the wear groves on the bevel gear are deep enough, that they would seem to suggest otherwise.

An organization I belong to, has a failure analysis Engineer, as a member. I will see if he can shed any light on this.

 

[amkfken]

Returned gears to dealer today, they are also puzzled and did comment about possible "soft" metal.

Ordered new parts, dealer wanted the gears for show and tell with factory rep on his next monthly visit, said they were optomistic about M-F applying gears to the expired warranty.

Will update with results, remember I am not really seeking warranty, but calling attention to a possible problem.

Thanks for all the responses.

 

[ray66v]

An organization I belong to, has a failure analysis Engineer, as a member. I will see if he can shed any light on this.

Sent him the photo, here's what I got back:

Ray
the picture was kind of small, but I did notice two issues. First, the backlash between the gears was improper. And second, the lube film broke down. Now which caused which, I don"t know. Excessive and insufficient backlash can cause the lube film to break down, due to excessive contact pressures, and a break down in the lube film, ( due to a lack of EP additives), can cause excessive wear. So, to keep this from happening, measure the backlash and adjust, (usually by shimming), and also use EP 90 gear lube.
Dave

I did tell him about the use of hydraulic fluid as a lubricant, (Iron horse was right). I did
not tell him there is no apparent adjustment on these gears.


Now the question is: Why did the designers choose not to use EP gear lube in this axle?????

 

[amkfken]

Ray:
Thanks for the reply, about the same conclousion that my son (ase certified mechanic) came up with, I am also not discounting the "soft metal" theory that I am pursuing.

Will get the parts to the M-F tech and possibly send them back for further factory evaluation, will let all know decision reached.

Would be darn tough to check and reset gear lash as in an automotive application, as outlined in repair manuals!

Waiting on parts, hope they don't have to come fron Japan!

 

[irvingj]

Fascinating discussion, you guys-- I'm sure I'm not he only one following this with interest; keep up the posts, please!

 

[bobzap]

Ditto: VEEEERY INTERESTING!!

 

[ray66v]

Ray:
Thanks for the reply, about the same conclousion that my son (ase certified mechanic) came up with, I am also not discounting the "soft metal" theory that I am pursuing.

Will get the parts to the M-F tech and possibly send them back for further factory evaluation, will let all know decision reached.

Would be darn tough to check and reset gear lash as in an automotive application, as outlined in repair manuals!

Waiting on parts, hope they don't have to come fron Japan!

Please see if you can get an answer to the question:

Why did the designers choose not to use EP gear lube in this axle?????

I think we are ready to switch to EP Gear lube, especially if they don't give a reason not too.

 

[ray66v]

FYI- I put Amsoil full synthetic EP gear lube in my front axle today. (SVG 75W-90)

Its getting cold, and I'm not going to mess with it later.

 

[amkfken]

Got all the parts I ordered in 3 days to my home (UPS), re-assembled with no problems whatsoever, used a quart of 80-90 gear oil in addition to the hydraulic fluid (50-50 mix?).

Jacked it up, put in 4wd, quiet as a mouse (or a diesel mouse), in and out of 4wd smoothly.

Next project was putting together and mounting the 2560 front mount snowblower, thanks to this forum applied all the tricks to eliminate possible problems with driveshafts.

Have not received a bill for the parts, nor call from factory rep. yet, will post results when I get them.