Gear drive vs hydro

[patrick_g]

Farmwithjunk makes a perfect argument for a gear tractor. In his work it is ideal. Note he uses hydrostat to mow his yard because it is what fits for him. Well said.

Makes the point I was trying to sneak up on. What is best is what is best for you. To get wrapped around the axle worrying about a few bucks in initial cost or maint or a lost HP or two and let that keep you from the convenience and productivity of HST in situations requiring frequent ground speed adjustment, change of direction (frontwards to backwards), and ease of precision positioning is short sighted such that it makes Mr. Magoo a really eagle eye.

How many big time row croppers run hydrostats? Not many. If I should sell my cattle and plow the place up for corn, cotton, and peanuts I will be in the market for a geared tractor.

Pat

 

[Soundguy]

I think one of the 'grey' areas that causes so much confusion is many tractor owners fall into an area where tranny type doesn't matter as much based on the small amount of work they are doing, vs actual tractor size or capability.

IE.. joe tractor user needs a smal tractor.. but one with enough FEL or 3pt to do 'x' task a couple times a year.. and past that.. he really don't care. For him.. trans probably doesn't even factor.. or if it does.. it factors in a way like price .. IE.. cost. Of course then you get the 'utilitarian' /'economy' crowd' and the convienience crowd in at the dealer ship.. with those making two different choices basd one 1) needs for the tractor, and 2) cost vs comfort. The #2 issue may not hold much water for the utility/economy crowd.. while on the other hand it's 'well worth it' for the comfort seekers'.

soundguy

 

[N80]

Pat, you be getting us off track again

Egon, why you be talking like a pirate?

 

[tallyho8]

1. Price
2. Reliability
3. Amount of HP loss with HST
4. Ease and speed of use
I'm still on #1 Price:

Tallyho, the price issue still stands. You are right, you might find an HST 4400 at one dealer for the price of a gear 4400 at another. That isn't the point. You have to compare the lowest HSt price to the lowest gear price. Finding an overpriced gear model doesn't really change the issue.

The point I was trying to make is that I shopped for the lowest prices on both gear and hydro and both of the lowest prices I got were $5000 lower than the list price on Kubota's web site and that there was only a $500 differential in the prices on the gear model and the HST model,not $2000. I do not believe that a gear tractor priced $5000 less than Kubota's list price is an overpriced gear model.


Another strange point I see when I read these threads is: when I read threads on "what chainsaw should I buy?, what rotary cutter should I buy?, what finishing mower should I buy?, etc., most of the posters always recommend buying about the most expensive one made (ex. Stihl, not Homelite) and explain their reasons why, yet these same posters, when it comes to their tractors, will tell you to get the less expensive gear model though they will admit that they would prefer the HST if it were the same price.

 

[N80]

Point being.....It's all about what you WANT and what you NEED.

Exactly, but what you can afford figures into the equation too. When I was shopping for a tractor I got it in my head that I needed about a 45 HP tractor. Admittedly, some of the reasons were misguided, but it turned out that 45 HP was exactly what I ended up needing. But, there was no 45 HP HST tractor on the market that I could afford. So some of us, even those of us who really like our geared machines, had to settle for geared machines.

 

[Soundguy]

Well.. yeah.. you can certaintly need more than you can afford in many cases.. and when it comes down to need vs comfort.. price usually dictates.

For instance.. if you have a chore that for whatever reason DEMANDS a .. say.. 45pto hp tractor.. and you have a choice of a yucky gear 45pto hp tractor in your price range.. but the HST tractors with 45 pto hp are out of your price range.. well.. then.. it goes down to need and price... etc.

soundguy

 

[N80]

The point I was trying to make is that I shopped for the lowest prices on both gear and hydro and both of the lowest prices I got were $5000 lower than the list price on Kubota's web site and that there was only a $500 differential in the prices on the gear model and the HST model,not $2000.

Then you got an unusually good deal, and I think I can say with some assurance that that is not typical. My estimate between the 4400DT and the 4400HST, about $1500, is based not based on MSRP, its based on searches on the internet for actual sale prices. So you got an excellent price, and at only $500 difference, that would indeed make the decision much harder even for a 'gear' head like me.

But when I was buying I had a budget of about $19,000. Firm. Virtually no wiggle room. With rear remotes I paid something like $19,200. The $500 difference would have been a deal breaker for me 3 years ago,

 

[Reg]

I have a set of pallet forks.
I have used them more than a few times.
It is doubtful that they would have lifted & unloaded some of the things I have used them for if I had downsized to a smaller hydro tractor for the same price as my gear tractor,
e.g. my back-hoe.

{Well, maybe - I guess I would have bought and brought home a smaller back-hoe (-:
but that opens up the whole set of scaling arguments}

I do not and will not regard a tractor with pallet forks to be precision competitive with a fork-lift.
I have no need for fork lift precision, I am not running a warehouse and trying to stack items within fractions of an inch of each other to save space.
I just need to lift a pallet once in a while and move it, typically within 6 inches of target is close enough.
BTW, I have plenty of space to do that in, even with the BIGGER TRACTOR !

 

[N80]

FIf I should sell my cattle and plow the place up for corn, cotton, and peanuts I will be in the market for a geared tractor.

Pat

Interesting that you mention that. My farmer buddy (300 cows,grows his own hay) who has all old gear tractors is looking to buy a new 60-70 hp, 4wd JD to move hay bales with (6' round bales). His current JD is spending more time in his shop and the old Case-O-Matic back up with a PTO driven pump for the FEL just died 3 days ago.

He has, I'm guessing, 12 tractors. This will be his first new tractor ever. It will never pull a plow or anything ground engaging. Mostly hay wagons, maybe a no-till drill, maybe a rotary cutter, rarely the baler. Seems like the precision, ease of use, safety on hills, and all that would make it a no brainer. Sounds like HST would be ideal for him, right?

No chance. Geared only.

But why?

Three reasons. First, he doesn't think an HSt can withstand the level of use he puts on a machine in terms of long term durability. He may be very wrong about that but that isn't the deal breaker. Second,the deal breaker is that he does most of his own repairs, short of machine shop type work, and he does not think he can do HST type work. Third, budget.

Just a real example of the few good reasons for geared vs HST. Simplicity. Price. Which really pretty much sums things up. I trust you guys that HSt is all that and more. But that doesn't change the fact that geared machines are perfectly reasonable options for a lot of folks. Even those who will never pull a plow.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Exactly, but what you can afford figures into the equation too. When I was shopping for a tractor I got it in my head that I needed about a 45 HP tractor. Admittedly, some of the reasons were misguided, but it turned out that 45 HP was exactly what I ended up needing. But, there was no 45 HP HST tractor on the market that I could afford. So some of us, even those of us who really like our geared machines, had to settle for geared machines.

To many (MOST?) of us, price compatability would fall under the wide umbrella of both "WANT" and "NEED".